Advanced Rider Training, Why dont you take it?

[outlaws justice]

In my Free time I teach all types of motorsports at many levels, Dirt, Street, Track etc. I have been involved in Motorsports Education for 20 years and over the years I have noticed it has always been very difficult to get riders to participate or take any type of training once they learn how to ride, and many do not get training to learn how to ride in the first place either.

I know that some groups are more likely to search out rider training programs, advanced training programs and participate in training than others, ie. from my experience BMW riders tend to be represented in advanced riding classes way above the average and disproportionately in relation to the numbers of bikes sold and on the road. In some Classes they can account for almost 1/3 of the riders in advanced classes. (It does vary by region)

So my Question is to you the riders, Why do YOU not look for and participate in rider training, Advanced training etc. Why are you not trying to become a better rider and in turn a safer and more responsible rider? If you have taken a basic Rider course for a license or to learn why did you not follow up with more and advanced training?

I like to equate rider training to our formal education, completion of the Basic classes like the MSF BRC is about the same as graduating from the 3rd grade. You did not quite school after the third grade but most riders tend to be of the opinion that the 3rd grade level of rider education is enough. There is so much more out there that can make you a better rider, and in turn might actually even save your life, so what prevents you from wanting to be better? I know some of you think, "I am a good rider" if that is the case, good in comparison to who? Don't you want to be better? Even track day guys? If you are not mixing it up with Rossie you can be better, so again whats the deal?

I am looking for the honest opinions of those who have not taken training, maybe you thought about it but just never did? Again why? Advanced training?? There is so much out there what is holding you back?

 

[Fire-medic]

I did the Experienced Rider MSF course probably close-to 30 yrs ago. I had a KZ1000 at the time. The drills were good for developing handling skills but the classroom time didn't give me any new important info, it was interesting though. Useful info about slippery pavement, inattentive drivers, under the influence drivers, aggressive drivers, keeping your bike in good shape, inspecting things before riding, proper gear (the #1 flaw among attendees, nearly all were NOT AGATT)

I think it was a worthwhile course especially if you don't have many miles/years under your belt. I still maintain the best training for road riding is offroad riding.

 

[outlaws justice]

I still maintain the best training for road riding is offroad riding.

To some extent, mostly for your mental skills. While a few riding skills do transfer, many off-road skills are the opposite for the street, and if you ride both (As I do) you have to be able to separate the skills. The Metal Skills are so worth the training! Getting past the fear, sliding etc. So valuable.

 

[Traumahawk]

If I am at home...I want to take Lee Parks advanced course that is offered in Fort Worth early November.

 

[HyperPete]

So my Question is to you the riders, Why do YOU not look for and participate in rider training, Advanced training etc. Why are you not trying to become a better rider and in turn a safer and more responsible rider? If you have taken a basic Rider course for a license or to learn why did you not follow up with more and advanced training?

I am looking for the honest opinions of those who have not taken training, maybe you thought about it but just never did? Again why? Advanced training?? There is so much out there what is holding you back?

I keep telling myself that I "should" take the basic and the advanced riders' courses that are offered for FREE here in PA, but here's the reasoning that I use to keep procrastinating:

1. I have been riding for 35 years or so.
2. I took a basic course back in the very beginning in NJ.
3. The Advanced Riders course here in PA requires the Basic course as a prerequisite.
4. The basic course is 5 hours of classroom time and 10 hours of on-bike time.
5. I justify that after 35 years of riding, I do not need the basic course. (But deep down I know that I will likely pick up a few pointers / tips anyway.)
6. Because I have to take the Basic Course first, I can't take the Advanced Course.

Yes, I know it's pretty lame. Maybe NEXT year I will actually take them. Here's the link for anyone in PA thinking about it:

http://www.livefreeridealive.com/

and

http://www.pamsp.com/

 

[Fire-medic]

As you said, "skills transfer." Marginal traction while accelerating/braking/turning in the dirt has for me made me much more-aware of vehicle dynamics, the positioning of me on the bike affecting it, and the "enforcement of the laws of physics" being much-less punishing when falling (most times!) in the dirt.

 

[Traumahawk]

I take it that this is you Outlaws Justice?

 

[outlaws justice]

I take it that this is you Outlaws Justice?

Ya, LOL Teaching a class on my 1998. But not all training has to get to that extreme, there is so much out there from Dirt to Track and everything in between.

 

[johnblaid]

They won't let me because I won't wear a helmet.

 

[outlaws justice]

They won't let me because I won't wear a helmet.

Its an insurance requirement for us, Not that you will fall over in a class, but it can happen and has. And the insurance likes to make money, not have to pay it out.

 

[jfeagins]

So, to participate in one of these classes, no signed release is required of the participants since they are fully insured while there?

 

[[email protected]]

I took the BRC course mainly to get my license. If you have VERY little riding experience it was helpful. They let a handful of people walk away with a license that couldn't pull away from a stop without stalling multiple times and couldn't remember the difference between the front brake and the clutch. Couldn't remember to pull in the clutch when stopping, etc.

It irritated me to think that a safety instructor would enable people like this and allow them on the street. They are a danger to themselves as well as others.

One day during class one of the students from last year dropped in to say hello. It was a middle aged woman and her husband on matching harleys. She fell over 3 times in the parking lot.

I thought if the advanced class was anything like the BRC class it wouldn't be worthwhile to attend. Im sure different locations or different instructors would yield better results but this is what I found in the location closest to me.

If there was a local advanced class that I could be sure was worthwhile I probably would attend.

 

[Fire-medic]

I took the BRC course mainly to get my license. If you have VERY little riding experience it was helpful. They let a handful of people walk away with a license that couldn't pull away from a stop without stalling multiple times and couldn't remember the difference between the front brake and the clutch. Couldn't remember to pull in the clutch when stopping, etc.

It irritated me to think that a safety instructor would enable people like this and allow them on the street. They are a danger to themselves as well as others.

One day during class one of the students from last year dropped in to say hello. It was a middle aged woman and her husband on matching harleys. She fell over 3 times in the parking lot.

I thought if the advanced class was anything like the BRC class it wouldn't be worthwhile to attend. Im sure different locations or different instructors would yield better results but this is what I found in the location closest to me.

If there was a local advanced class that I could be sure was worthwhile I probably would attend.

You should share your observations w/someone of authority in the motor vehicle operator licensing hierarchy. That program isn't doing anyone any favors, and may in-fact be indirectly liable for trauma victims. How can anyone in that trainer position allow someone w/a deficit of operator skills let them go out on the roads? I don't know how they operate, but it should be that if you're unsuccessful, you get to register for the next class, free. If you pass that time, OK. If not, you obviously don't belong on the road, and need to pay for another two opportunities to gain the requisite knowledge, skills, and abilities to operate a motorcycle.

My guess about this husband is that he has a big life insurance policy on his wife. "Sure honey, go for a ride!" One day during class one of the students from last year dropped in to say hello. It was a middle aged woman and her husband on matching harleys. She fell over 3 times in the parking lot.

 

[Traumahawk]

Ive had the MSF (basic) course....and for people that have no knowledge of a motorcycle, I guess its ok. I took so I would finally be legal. I rode for about 10 years without a M/C endorsement.

To be able to ride better, I want to take the Total Control course. Its like the MSF course...but at higher speeds, from what Ive been told.

 

[johnblaid]

Its an insurance requirement for us, Not that you will fall over in a class, but it can happen and has. And the insurance likes to make money, not have to pay it out.

I might fall over or not see something coming or not hear something important if I wear a helmet. I work in a doctors office and am painfully aware that insurance companies do not like to pay claims and will go to illegal lengths these days to avoid it.

 

[outlaws justice]

I want to take the Total Control course. Its like the MSF course...but at higher speeds, from what Ive been told.

Nothing like the MSF course, SOOOO Much Better. I teach both

 

[josephjhaney]

I keep telling myself that I "should" take the basic and the advanced riders' courses that are offered for FREE here in PA, but here's the reasoning that I use to keep procrastinating:

1. I have been riding for 35 years or so.
2. I took a basic course back in the very beginning in NJ.
3. The Advanced Riders course here in PA requires the Basic course as a prerequisite.
4. The basic course is 5 hours of classroom time and 10 hours of on-bike time.
5. I justify that after 35 years of riding, I do not need the basic course. (But deep down I know that I will likely pick up a few pointers / tips anyway.)
6. Because I have to take the Basic Course first, I can't take the Advanced Course.

Yes, I know it's pretty lame. Maybe NEXT year I will actually take them. Here's the link for anyone in PA thinking about it:

http://www.livefreeridealive.com/

and

http://www.pamsp.com/

I gotta say I took it this year, the basic, and I really enjoyed it. It was interesting, I've been riding since I was a kid on dirt bikes, then got my first Street Bike when I was in college and never looked back. LOVE riding, but the course did help me pick up a few things, some good stopping practice, and just the repetition of some of the things in the course was very cool.

I'd reccomend it to anyone who lives in PA and rides. I plan to have the wife and daughter go though it next year, our daughter will just be getting her license and what better way to make sure she's aware of her surroundings than to have her hop on a motorcycle. I doubt she'll be riding one anytime soon, but just to have that feel is worth it.

Joe

 

[eggohead]

I had to take the Advanced course in 1996(XV750), when I was stationed at Fort Huachuca- it was a military requirement. I had the option to be a instructor in Hawaii, then came down on order to move. At Ft Riley, I had to barrow a buddies bike(883) and retook the course. Then here at Ft. Lee I had to take it again-(Vmax) all too easy. The first one taught me far more than the last two. But I had to pay for the first one also. I hate the way the sport guys are like you can't take our course. I don't care too much, I since retired so the course is not a requirement every 3 years anymore. I do find it funny to watch others on their bikes in the course( the bike H-D and the Sports bikes) with how people don't belong in the advanced course yet...I had been riding for over 15 years before I took the class the first time.

 

[HyperPete]

I gotta say I took it this year, the basic, and I really enjoyed it. It was interesting, I've been riding since I was a kid on dirt bikes, then got my first Street Bike when I was in college and never looked back. LOVE riding, but the course did help me pick up a few things, some good stopping practice, and just the repetition of some of the things in the course was very cool.

I'd reccomend it to anyone who lives in PA and rides. I plan to have the wife and daughter go though it next year, our daughter will just be getting her license and what better way to make sure she's aware of her surroundings than to have her hop on a motorcycle. I doubt she'll be riding one anytime soon, but just to have that feel is worth it.

Joe

Good to hear. I see that they are available through early November. I am registered on the site. Maybe I will get off my ass and take one this autumn.

 

[outlaws justice]

Good to hear. I see that they are available through early November. I am registered on the site. Maybe I will get off my ass and take one this autumn.

No Better time to stop putting of something that might be a benefit for you, and unlike here it is FREE