How would you go about it...

[Kronx]

I feel sorta of stupid for this, but also pretty damn determined too -- I'm 43 years old, I've been working in IT for close to 20 years now and I'm sick of it. What do I want to do? I want to work on motorcycles the rest of my life. I sort of feel like a kid saying "I want to be an astronaut" for admitting it, but I know its what I want to do.

But of course, as I admitted a few months ago when I got my VMax, I've been away from the wrench turning world for even longer than I've been in IT. Most of you, if not all of you, have been doing what I dream of doing all your lives. As I told a friend the other day "I'm friggin' sick of saying 'I bought it' so friggin' often. I want to say 'I built it' more often."

Not a day goes by since I bought my VMax months ago that I don't watch a video or read an article on something to do with motorcycles. One day it might be a review of a certain bike, the next day it might be how to get rid of rust in a gas tank, and the next day it might be how to build your own powder coat system in your garage.

For me, I've always been a hands on learner. It's how I got into IT. Bought a PC, really dug it, and learned as much as I could. Didn't go to school, but I read trade mags and piddled. I went from someone who barely knew how to turn a PC on to a network/email administrator for a billion dollar company.

I know the power of hands on learning... of the word I hold dearly... apprenticeship. I want to do this so bad and I respect apprenticeship so much that I just want to work in a shop for free. I'm not there for a paycheck... I there for the knowledge. I want scraped knuckles and greasy clothes again.

I figure I'll be an empty nester of sorts in about 6 to 7 years. I'm hoping I can get as much learning/experience as I can in those 6 to 7 years to make the switch. But where do I even start? How do I even approach this...

I guess I'm sort of thinking out loud here... but I know many of you have your own shops... whats your advice?

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

Depends. Do you want to work on them for a living or a hobby? Wrenching on bikes for a living at your own shop could be profitable, but working in someone else's shop might not be as profitable as your current job. Motorcycles are a recreation, and with the economy so crappy that is the first thing people let sit when they need repaired. I went through all of this recently with my son, he loves wrenching on bikes and was going to go to a local motorcycle mechanics school. I explained that the 30k they wanted for tuition was going to take a long time to pay off....and most shops are gonna want certification before hiring. I say you should try it as a hobby in your spare time first, and see where it goes. Bob

 

[Kronx]

Depends. Do you want to work on them for a living or a hobby? Wrenching on bikes for a living at your own shop could be profitable, but working in someone else's shop might not be as profitable as your current job. Motorcycles are a recreation, and with the economy so crappy that is the first thing people let sit when they need repaired. I went through all of this recently with my son, he loves wrenching on bikes and was going to go to a local motorcycle mechanics school. I explained that the 30k they wanted for tuition was going to take a long time to pay off....and most shops are gonna want certification before hiring. I say you should try it as a hobby in your spare time first, and see where it goes. Bob

The long term goal is to work on them for a living in my own shop...eventually. And by longer term I mean minimum of 6 years from now... most likely 8. Short and mid term goal(ie until then) is to learn learn learn. I looked into schools locally and I'm skeptical to say the least. My girlfriend is going to school and when I see what she's paying for I'm VERY underwhelmed. In a few of her classes they're ultimately just telling her to read a book. I don't need to pay someone a few grand to tell me to read a friggin book. I do that on my own(bit of a bookworm). We got a new tech in our crew who went to ITT. He's buried with the student loan and honestly I've already showed him more in the few months he's been with us than he learned in the years he went there.

The IT field has plethora of certs and there's few that have any merit with me when I hire. A long time ago there used to be a certification called Certified Novell Engineer or CNE. Well it still exists, but I mean more back when Novell was the dominant network operating system. Now it's Microsoft. Anyways, CNE often got referred to as meaning "Certified No Experience."

So if I do go after a certification I want to make sure it's one that's actually got some clout -- I don't want a motorcycle CNE.

Thanks for your response Bob! I appreciate the feedback!

 

[DMAN999]

Personally I'd check out some smaller local Bike shops.
Show up on your Vmax and get to know the Owners/Mechanics.
Eventually if I felt comfortable with one shop, I'd mention that I'd love to just hang out and help/learn in my spare time.
Most small shops are welcoming to anyone that really loves motorcycles.
I'd also do as much wrenching on your Max as you can do on your own, with the help of the service manual and members here.
Attending any Tech days or even hosting your own is always a good time and will help you and anyone else that attends learn more about your/their Vmax.

 

[one2dmax]

Definitely don't expect to get rich doing it unless you can get a cult following. Custom bike work is where the money is at - not every day wrenching. Again, you have to develop a following before you can see any serious money. I see small shops opening and closing time and time again. I am not sure for the more specific people I support that there would be enough to make a full time job out of it. I'd have to charge more which I don't like to do.

You're always welcome to come down here and throw a wrench around doing menial stuff but there would not be any money in it. Just the ability to learn a little bit. The advantage of being a specialty shop like I am is you get really good at the bikes you are used to working on. Many of the basics apply to other models but you learn all the shortcuts and weak spots in them.

Bikes are becoming more and more electronic so even some of your old skills may be good for this new job. Especially if you can get good at being a dyno tuning shop. Investing in a new dyno and being able to learn to program these for best power/economy can really be a strong selling point. You can even potentially sell your services to new bike dealers and offer a break in service. This would be put to the customers as a possible selling point as you can break in a bike on the dyno in a matter of a few hours and then the customer is ready to go ride without worry about doing it themselves. Plus you can install the accessories and do the proper dyno match tuning. MANY customers do this to brand new bikes.

Just an idea for you to kick around.

I have a degree I rarely use and been out of the system for so long it's not even valuable anymore. I had the MCSE, Win2k, CCNA, A+ (repair), and a number of programming codes. You have to really stay on top of those though as they are always changing.

 

[mr.maxx]

Personally id rather have a job that I loved and made me feel good rather than being stuck in a place that I hated . sometimes being happy is more important than having loads of money. most of us never discover what we are really good at and incorporate that into a career. if you are one of the lucky few that does, life can be way more happy and fulfilling.

 

[VMax-Mike]

Sean is right trying to start a repair shop without a following would be hard. Even with a following its hard. I can tell you first hand that its not all you think it is. You will have a lot more hard times than good times. It takes the right type of person to run a shop and make it. Just like it takes the right type of person to drive truck all night long 500 miles a night 5 nights a week but I like what I do for a living. I also like to wrench but after 7 years of doing it and owning a repair shop I found out wrenching is a lot more fun as a hobby. After I started driving my dad asked if I wanted to go back into wrenching and I told him I would rather break them than work on them. So if you think you are the kind of person that likes headache after headache and would like to deal with people through all of it and go to electrical class the rest of your life I say go for it. After you get through all that it is rewarding. But it wasent rewarding enough for me. The best thing you can do for yourself is think about all the negatives and if you can find enough possitives to outway the negatives and you have at least $50000 cash to get you through your first year I say go for it.

 

[VMax-Mike]

Few things you will want to think about. Good accountant health insurance commercial rent commercial insurance heat water electric commercial advertising and more before you even get to look at a paycheck. work orders company sign on the building tax number llc TOOLS and more plus that $50000 dont get me wrong it can be done and i did pay a $6500 rent in down town ann arbor but it came with a clientele. We started with $10000 cash that we paid payments on and we had a ass load of hand tools. After i moved us to a bigger garage with a $2000 a month payment we lost half of our clientele and the heat and eletric went up. we needed a/c machine lath hoist and more. Needless to say this was hard on our friendship and both wives. If you still want to do this DONT have a partner.

 

[MaxMidnight]

The easiest thing to say is 'don't do it!' but if we all listened to that advice then nothing would ever get done.

One thing you should decide upon very early is will you allow the business to run you or will you run the business?

Over many years I have seen too many business's where it is the former and as a result they only just survive and the quality of their lives is questionable.

Mr VMax-Mike's references to the financial aspect is bang on.

Your first step should be a business plan so you can start to understand what the financial impact of your venture will be.

Start with your current costs that you must incur. These will be personal costs (mortgage, utilities, insurance etc.) and business cost (rent, rates, utilities, loans etc.).
Then add in those which are optional, holidays, food etc. - try and include everything, even down to the occasional haircut.
Finally those which you definitely, at a push, you willing to sacrifice.

That is how much profit you must make to stay afloat. Probably quite a large number?

This will be generated from the revenue you will make from selling your skills.

How much Gross Profit can you expect from the labour? Aim for between 65 and 70 %. That will give you a turnover figure.
How much will you charge an hour for your labour?
Divide that into your turnover and see how many hours you will need to work a year. Note that I haven't included any profit from parts - keep that to one side and treat it as a bonus unless you can find out a reasonable parts to labour ratio for the type of business you will undertake as well as a GP value .

The temptation is to look on the optimistic side - of course you will sell every hour.......won't you; every job will go smoothly without any cock-ups that you can't charge for. Err, definitely not so go on the pessimistic side!

If after having done all of the sums (and show then to a few other people who will quite happily point out any omissions or errors) it still seems like a going proposition then, and only then, would I start to seriously consider going down your chosen route.
At least you will be doing based on some facts rather than optimism.

I wish you well. :biglaugh:

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

For sure you don't want to risk everything and roll the dice on a shop with lots of overhead. Start small in your garage after work in the evenings. Work on mowers, trimmers, blowers and other small engines as they are pretty simple to troubleshoot and fix, and there is a demand for their repair because everyone has them. Charge people lightly, do quality work, and word of mouth will spread quickly of your shop. Then you will be established and can branch out to the bikes.

 

[VMax-Mike]

In 2004 i did everything right when i became a owner operator of a 2004 semi. I did a full maintenance lease on a new truck. Big over head yes but i was able to run hard without any trouble so i thought. one time i backed out of a blind parking space and a guy came through the lot so fast that i backed under his trailer and the landing gear hit the ass end and took my air bag out. he hit me so hard that my truck slide 6 feet. I had to pay the tow bill and repair bill. when i parked to go inside the gm plant i was the only one parked but when i came back out i was boxed in. I ran this truck for a year and i ended up needing surgery on my elbow. At this time i was offered a way out of my lease so i did it. But just so you all know i grossed $110000 that year and ran harder ever and put $45000 in my pocket. Not bad for the first year but i made $54000 the year before working for someone else and all i had to do is show up for work and run. I spent hours of up keep on the truck (washing and cleaning on the weekends) My wife did the books every week so we could save on accounting fee's. Yes she to had a part time job on top of her full time job. She was the hardest boss i ever had. LOL. But if i dident put myself to the test i wouldent know what i know today. And i can say that i am super happy doing what i do for a living. Some of us just have to lern the hard way. I can tell all of you this if you want to be your own boss and not work hard it will cost you alot of money. It can be done but someone needs to do the work so if you dont want to do it you will need to pay someone to do it. And good luck with all that. Kronx i think you get the just of what we all are saying so if you still want to go for it take 06maximus advice and start out small in your garage and see what you think. Just remember if the same shity job that you hate doing is all you got coming in the door you will have to do it to pay the bills. You will see more shitty jobs than cake jobs because customers dont want to do them. Hope this helps and good luck to ya.

 

[diggerzmound]

JOb is an old Indian word for, This Sucks...

I would be surprised if 30% of blue collar workers truly enjoy their job.

There is no better way to kill a passion or hobby then turning it into a job.

Wrenching would be cool on bikes that had no owners. Unfortunately there will always be a douche bike owner to ruin your day. Unless of course you are like Sean, he works on Vmax and all Vmax owners are cool!

 

[VMax-Mike]

Im sure sean has had more than a few from the vmax world. what does owner/boss mean in indian?

 

[forestdaledave]

I agree about ruining a hobby, turn it into a job.
Keep a well paying job, turn wrenches as a hobby.
forestdaledave

 

[one2dmax]

Sometimes I wonder about that myself. I ride few times a year (far less then when I just had the day job). Some customers can be difficult and remember this these bikes can be their "babies" so they can be particular. However, by far the bulk of customers are more then understanding and delays can be a way of life. Good communication and taking care of problems when (not if) they arise is a key.

The reaper build (one of the most complicated builds) actually cost me plenty of my own money (not the customers fault) but it was still very fun to do.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

When I had a job that I didn't enjoy very much (Hi-Volt maintenance in a Lyondell chemical plant) but made excellent money at I simply thought of it as....

"Working to finance my weekends"

That worked for 18 years before boredom and a feeling of being just a cog in a giant wheel and becoming stagnant technically drove me to find the job I have now; which pays even better and that I enjoy to a level of geekness I didn't think possible.

Both my brothers are self employed and I've seen that its not for me. If your self employed they say you set your own hours, that's bullshit, if your self employed your customers set your hours. My Dad had an industrial electrical contracting business and I think he must have averaged 65-75 hours a week his entire life.

I work those sort of hours too (3 years of >1000 hrs. OT in a row now) but its my choice and they're all billable instead of being the many "overhead" hours I watched my dad and brothers put in.

 

[Kronx]

Thanks a lot for the advice gentlemen. I can't be more sincere when I say I *really* do appreciate it. You've all given me a lot to think about as well as echo many of the thoughts I've been running through my head(just didn't want to write a novel of a forum post which I'm prone to do). I really appreciate each and every response.

Job ruining a hobby? Yep, definitely been worrying about that. Starting off small and slow? Yep, that was the general plan. My plan for the next 5 to 6 years was learn as much as I can while working my IT job. How I've been thinking of doing that:

1> Try to get my foot in the door in a small shop as Dennis suggested. Work for free with the reward being the knowledge gained. Sean, thanks so much for the offer. If I lived closer in the area, I'd absolutely take you up on it. I've actually talked with a small shop locally and the head mechanic there said he'd certainly be interested in talking about a setup like that. I plan to have that talk with him soon.

2> Buy/find a dirt cheap broken bike and fix it up and learn through the many mistakes I know I will make. As Sam Beckett wrote: "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better." My plan is to hopefully do this several times over course of 6 to 7 years. Each bike I would progressively put tougher personal goals on - such as budget limits, deadlines, etc.

3> Read, watch, talk with and listen to all the smart minds who have been doing this for years and years and soak up everything like a sponge.

After six to seven years of this I hope to not only have the knowledge needed to start off small, but also have a better idea of the path that lies ahead should I still want to travel it.

After I got out of the Air Force I worked for my Uncles who had their own businesses for awhile. I saw the ups and downs they dealt with on a daily basis. One uncle had a sign business that he ultimately started out of a spare bedroom and through quality work and word of mouth he got a loyal clientele. I saw the stress he had when the phone wouldn't stop ringing(more work than his small shop could take on) and I saw the equal amount of stress he'd have when the phone wouldn't ring. The one mantra he had that's always sort of stuck with me was "I don't want to make a killin'... I just want to make a livin'." He was an honest man and that ethic was a big reason for his success through nothing more than word of mouth. And I saw plenty of people trying to screw over the honest man.

Thanks again for all of your advice. Truly. The easy part is now, the planning. The hard part comes later. Putting rubber to the road. Because as the saying goes "If you want proof God has a sense of humor - just make a plan."

 

[diggerzmound]

Im sure sean has had more than a few from the vmax world. what does owner/boss mean in indian?

That one is easy - Chief Babysitter