More grunt wanted...but how?

[max_caper]

Hi folks,

I've been checking all the cool handling stuff for the VMax (e.g. sportbike front ends) and then it dawned on me...there's only about a total of 8 turns in my part of Ontario and only 2 of them are worthy of a warning sign!

Now horsepower & torque you can use anywhere. The question is, which way to get them. I'd like to stay away from turbos and blowers because insurance companies up here love to ding you big-time for those features.

I have a 2006 VMax with 15,000 miles on her. She's pretty much stock except for a Morley Muscle jet kit and Dale Walker Holeshot 4-2 exhaust. I'm looking for mods that will really improve low-end grunt (e.g. power wheelies on demand!) but not be a total gas pig, and still be a reliable daily traveller for years to come...if this is possible!

I only know of Sean Morley and PCW in terms of engine mod specialists although I'm sure there's lots of places out there.

I'm not trying to start an argument but what are the pros/cons of each place you folks might know about?

Thanks,

Blaine Williams
Oshawa, Ontario

 

[lankeeyankee]

How much do you want to spend?

850.00 USD for a nitrous kit.
Will give you up to 60 extra horespower.

If you have money and time Big Bore, Cams, Forged Pistons, and Oversized Valves with a high dollar Port work done to your head, These mods individually all start 1000.00 USD +

My suggestion is. Buy an engine from a wrecked VMAX and start little by little if you dont have 3500.00+ to drop all at once and you also wont be out of a ride when you are building.

 

[maleko89]

Can you use NOS for low end or midrange?

 

[Heretic]

You've done just about all you can w/o getting into the engine or nitrous that will create any decent gains. There is no replacement for displacement! Having PCW build you an engine will do it, but price everything out before you start. You can fairly quickly spend more than you have in the purchase price of the bike itself.

Power is nothing w/o control. Improving the handling and braking and overall feel of the bike will give you more confidence to use the power you have already. Solid engine mounts, replacement front springs, R1 calipers w/ EBC HH pads are all inexpensive items (all under $100 each) that will increase the ability to use whats already there.

 

[Jayhawk]

If you want more performance, and a huge boost in brakes and suspension...sell the Max and buy an '09. You'll never recoup the money you're talking about spending on upgrading the '06. Just my $0.02.

Edit: Oops..just noticed you're in Canada. Not sure of the markup for a new one up north. Meh, go for it.

 

[max_caper]

Hi all,

Thanks for the suggestions. I have solid motor mounts, progressive fork springs, lowered 1.5 inches in front, "Furber" fix, fork brace...I'm fairly satisfied with the handling although you are correct that the brakes could be better.

NOS is illegal in Ontario except for at the track.

Believe me, I've considered the 2009. 22,000 is a lot of money tho! And I can't even get an insurance quote yet. In Ontario, the old VMax is invisible to insurance companies as a street weapon. I'm not 100% certain that this will be the case with the new bike...especially since it puts out 197 HP. If the insurance companies call it a sport bike the premiums will be too much for me (by comaprison, it would cost me 2700/yr to insure a ZX14...too rich 4 my blood).

Thanks again. I lookforward to any/all suggestions.

PS My budget is about 2500 for mods.

Blaine

 

[Vmax87]

More grunt for $2500.00??? ok Blaine, take that $2500.00 go down to Yamaha dealer, drop it down on a BWS 50, Because, no matter what you do to your bike or have done it by a shop or friend, it's never done right or you feel you didn't get what you expected.
At least with a BWS 50, there's a fixed amount of options and up grade parts, But in the end it's still a 50cc, Just like the Vmax is UNTIL YOU OPEN IT UP and spend some real coin, like many have and have told you in the past many many times. Right know you done what can be done on a stock Vmax, the next and only step now is to open it up!!!!
98% of the people on this and many other lists will agree, you done what you can( flat slides are another opinion,but you dont know how to tune them,so their out of the question).:bang head:

 

[lankeeyankee]

Can you use NOS for low end or midrange?

Sure why not, I wouldnt try to use NOS for any speeds below 60 MPH though.

Who needs more low end on a VMAX 90% of VMAX owners cant ride a VMAx to the potential of its low end torque.

He wanted power wheelies, Thats NOS I can power wheelie it in 2nd and 3rd just hard to control.

He sounds like a kid, asking how to increase performance but worried about NOS being illegal. Speeding is ilegal so why as about performance mods.

 

[max_caper]

Tyler!?

"it's never done right". I think I know where you get your info but try talking to ALL the sources before you make negative generalizations... first, it isn't accurate, and it second, it doesn't make you, a VMOA Regional Director, look like a very positive ambassador for your club.

Counterpoint: I love the handling mods that were done by Dave. The Cabot Trail never felt so good. I've thanked Dave for his work and have recommended solid motor mounts to others who have asked about handling upgrades. I've directed others to Dave. Corey took my bike when it was running with snow-white plugs and idling poorly and made it work smoothly again. I've recommended Peterborough Powersports and Corey's work to others as well.

If I think my bike is running a bit rich isn't it a fair question to ask for feedback...I didn't see this as a sign of disrespect that to what others' have done for me. It might be just because the temperatures are getting cooler and my needles/jets, etc need to be tweaked.

I thought 2500 would be a good start but if it isn't, I'll save up more money. No big deal!

Keep spreading the cheer, Tyler!

Blaine

More grunt for $2500.00??? ok Blaine, take that $2500.00 go down to Yamaha dealer, drop it down on a BWS 50, Because, no matter what you do to your bike or have done it by a shop or friend, it's never done right or you feel you didn't get what you expected.
At least with a BWS 50, there's a fixed amount of options and up grade parts, But in the end it's still a 50cc, Just like the Vmax is UNTIL YOU OPEN IT UP and spend some real coin, like many have and have told you in the past many many times. Right know you done what can be done on a stock Vmax, the next and only step now is to open it up!!!!
98% of the people on this and many other lists will agree, you done what you can( flat slides are another opinion,but you dont know how to tune them,so their out of the question).:bang head:

 

[max_caper]

Sure why not, I wouldnt try to use NOS for any speeds below 60 MPH though.

Who needs more low end on a VMAX 90% of VMAX owners cant ride a VMAx to the potential of its low end torque.

He wanted power wheelies, Thats NOS I can power wheelie it in 2nd and 3rd just hard to control.

He sounds like a kid, asking how to increase performance but worried about NOS being illegal. Speeding is ilegal so why as about performance mods.

This is my second childhood actually...thanks for participating!

Blaine

 

[lankeeyankee]

Great! I hope the information that you requested you found with responses from the users.
JUst hard to take someone serious when they ask about performance mods of making there bike more powerful and than after the efforts are made a response you are worried about laws.
The VMAX becomes illegal after a couple of seconds into second gear of reaching speeds of 70MPH+
Nitrous is illegal to use on most roads, use but not have physically on the bike. Speeding is illegal only until you make the decision to use it.

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Blaine,

You have several big questions to ask yourself before you go dropping money on your bike:

1) What do you want to do with the bike? For every performance upgrade there is a cost, not just monetary. You cannot expect higher performance with the same economy for example. Trust me I speak from experience, mine isn't awful economy wise, but it is a lot lower than stock. Until you answer this question, keep your cash.

2) Am I willing to accept the cost of the upgrades? I have >$6k in my engine alone and a grand total of almost $25k into my Max (including purchase price). It is more than worth it to me, is it to you? Bottom line is HP costs $$$, just a fact of life. Until you answer this question, keep your cash.

3) Should I just look for another bike that does what I want? You have your bike up for sale so you have obviously been giving this thought.

4) Will I truly be happy once I get the upgrades? If you feel a constant need to change your settings because you feel there is more out there you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Get the bike tuned where it runs well and ride it. Constant mucking about causes unnecessary wear to parts and costs a disproportionate amount of $$ for the return. Until you can set the goals and are happy once you get there keep your cash.

There are bikes out there that will easily do what you want your Max to do, and they have the added benefit of being reasonably priced compared to upgrading a Max. Unless you are committed to the Vmax and it is the bike you REALLY want to upgrade, take the cash you save, sell the Max, and buy the bike you want. I don't want to see you spending $$$ just because when you can get what you are looking for cheaper.

Just my $.02 Cdn.........

 

[max_caper]

Most of the info I have received was very polite and helpful. You are right that speeding and stunting are illegal. However, engine mods are legal are subject to user discretion...in Canada (i believe) nos gets you busted just by having it on your bike...even if it isn't plumbed into the bike. Given a choice I'd choose a legal method. Sorry if my answer offended.

Great! I hope the information that you requested you found with responses from the users.
JUst hard to take someone serious when they ask about performance mods of making there bike more powerful and than after the efforts are made a response you are worried about laws.
The VMAX becomes illegal after a couple of seconds into second gear of reaching speeds of 70MPH+
Nitrous is illegal to use on most roads, use but not have physically on the bike. Speeding is illegal only until you make the decision to use it.

 

[Buster Hymen]

Great! I hope the information that you requested you found with responses from the users.
JUst hard to take someone serious when they ask about performance mods of making there bike more powerful and than after the efforts are made a response you are worried about laws.
The VMAX becomes illegal after a couple of seconds into second gear of reaching speeds of 70MPH+
Nitrous is illegal to use on most roads, use but not have physically on the bike. Speeding is illegal only until you make the decision to use it.

Most of the info I have received was very polite and helpful. You are right that speeding and stunting are illegal. However, engine mods are legal are subject to user discretion...in Canada (i believe) nos gets you busted just by having it on your bike...even if it isn't plumbed into the bike. Given a choice I'd choose a legal method. Sorry if my answer offended.

NOS is a big ass ticket here now in Ontario. If you have a bottle, it can not be hooked up or plumbed into the motor. So if you have a NOS bottle that is at all visible on your bike, the cops are always going to be pulling you over. And with the new Bill 203, you can lose your bike and license for a week basically because the cop doesn't like you.

 

[max_caper]

Thanks for your reply, Jim. I appreciate your candor. I guess I'm at a crossroads like you were last year when you wanted to sell your Max and buy the ZX-14...you're just not sure which way to go, modify or buy a new one. "What do I want?" ...that's the million dollar question! All I have for an answer is "more" and that "I'd know it if I drove it". The dilemna is that not too many folks would be willing to loan his/her tricked out bike...especially since I'd be in no position to re-imburse them if I dropped it, God forbid!

I've been contemplating taking out a loan over and above the 2500 to increase what I can do in terms of mods for my bike. Maybe I'll just buy the 75cc version of the bike your VMOA regional director kindly offered.

I know there's options out there and prices will vary according to the HP gains. I've heard of the 1300 swap, your 1428 set-up, the 1500 tourmaster...these are 3 options that I've heard about. I'm sure there are other places/strategies I could take. I threw the question out on this forum looking for options that might possibly differ from what I've heard on the other boards. If anyone has heard my questions before he/she is always free to delete or ignore...just a suggestion.

I am not "constantly" changing my settings...only in the last week have I noticed that the bike is running richer. Maybe this is typical Max behaviour in cooler, humid weather and something I have to live with. Nothing wrong with asking tho!

I am hoping to be more mechanically self-sufficient soon. Thanks to the folks on this list I have learned that there are 0.5 size needle clips, 2 PAJ's that affect tuning, float levels which I didn't consider until now...very helpful info.

Thanks for correcting me on the NOS matter, Buster. I thought it was illegal to even have a bottle bolted on my bike.


Thanks again,

Blaine

 

[Buster Hymen]

Blaine, what HP and or torque numbers are you looking for? If you have a target number, it would be easier to figure out the cost to get there.

 

[Storloc]

I don't mean to hijack the mans thread but I too have been eyeballing some more ponies. I would like to see somewhere around 160/100 at the rear myself, I'd like to think its doable without compromising daily reliability and drivability. I like the idea of the 1428, anyone have the specs of a build like that? Hopefully the OP can glean something from this as well.

 

[veebooster]

Jim Rodgers has what your looking for. Reliability with some good power. Speak to him....cost $$ tho!

Dale #2592

 

[one2dmax]

anyone have a way to put an excell spreadsheet on here? I can have someone post one of my 1300 build sheets on here if so.
Sean

 

[Thevmaxrider]

I don't mean to hijack the mans thread but I too have been eyeballing some more ponies. I would like to see somewhere around 160/100 at the rear myself, I'd like to think its doable without compromising daily reliability and drivability. I like the idea of the 1428, anyone have the specs of a build like that? Hopefully the OP can glean something from this as well.

Mine runs well, gets ok fuel mileage, and has plenty of power. If you are looking to go the same way contact John at PCW and talk to him. I highly recommend that if you build a 1428 you have John install one of Sean's jet kits!! As a matter of fact John will recommend it too. It is the best fit for this style of engine, in fact mine makes more hp/torque than an identical motor running Vgas flatslides. There are options out there and you should really explore them all. When I was looking to rebuild I talked to multiple vendors (Sean Morley and PCW were the two I settled on seriously looking at) and to be honest the deciding factor was shipping for me. I dropped my engine off at PCW for the cost of a couple of tanks of fuel, while shipping to Sean would have been a lot more. Both Sean and John do high quality work and are great at answering questions and helping you decide on what best suits your needs. I don't think a guy could go wrong with either one. Do your homework and you will not be disappointed. I will PM you my final tally cost wise etc.


Of course this represents my opinion and may be disputed at any time:biglaugh: