RaWarrior
Well-Known Member
With americade running this week, and weather being iffy, demo rides have been in plentiful supply. Only got two in yesterday but hopefully some more tomorrow to report on.
'12 Star VMAX
Well, what else would I take out first? This was also the first bike to get booked for the day (followed by the Super Tenere, then FZ8). From what I can tell there are no cosmetic or functional differences since the 09 introduction, or at least nothing that jumps out at you. Seat height is maybe a touch higher than a gen1, probably a good inch or so compared to my Morley seat. At 5-8 I was on tippy toes at stoplights. Seat felt a lot like the gen1 also. Flat and hard.
The big analog tach with shift light is finally in the right place and the digital speedo has a decently fast refresh. I found the "tank" screen display kind of tough to see, you have to lean backward and look towards your crotch to read it, looking down farther than the tach on a gen1.
As you'd expect, it's got a monster of an engine. Fires up with no fuss and has a decent (if muted) exhaust note. The gearbox is notably improved, neutral is much easier to find and shifting seems a bit lighter and more precise as compared to my '97. Torque is available en masse from about 3k on up, and get it up past 4k and you're in "rolling burnout on demand" territory. It smokes the rear tire with ridiculous ease. The demo bike had 3300 miles and the guy said they just put the third rear tire on it.
Power delivery was surprisingly familiar. Just stronger. Good torque down low, but get the revs up a bit and it swells with RPM. The "v-boost" is more noticeable as a change in the intake noise(which is fantastically mean sounding) than in acceleration.
Handling/stability was predictably better than a gen 1, though not really that much better than my gen 1 that had been lowered with Progressive springs. It wasn't quite as upset by frost heaves while cornering, though that may be simply because it weighs more. Didn't get a chance to wind it up to speed. Turn-in was a bit heavy and the "flick" was rather sluggish. I think wider handlebars would improve the overall feel.
Here were my issues with it.....the brakes. As is yamaha tradition, it has lackluster brakes. The front lever had no "bite" and very poor feel, it was spongy and vague. While they worked adequately, I think better pads and SS lines would do wonders for this. The rear was a similar story.
The blinkers. What is it with new Yamaha's and these wobbly blinker stems? They jiggle and bounce like **** on a trampoline. They look stupid to start with and them wiggling all over the place makes it look cheap. They'd have to go pronto.
The throttle response was also very touchy. In town it requires an extremely precise hand to drive smoothly without big jerks of engine braking, then power, since the difference is just the slightest twitch of your wrist. I realize that's partially because it's got so much torque on tap, but softening up the response(or offering power modes....as bikes half this price have) would improve overall driveability.
In a way, I felt like "more is less" when it came to the power. There's so damn much of it, you go anywhere near the throttle in 1-2-3 and you're smoking the rear tire to kingdom come. It almost makes the bike feel slower since you have to be so careful with the throttle and can really only unleash the power in the upper gears. You have to be very ginger with the throttle to stay anywhere close to speed limits. Talking the slightest touch off idle. This is something I suspect you'd get used to in time, but the rear tire was in no way up to the job of putting that power to the ground.
In a 30 minute demo I went from a tick under full to a tick over half. Holy OPEC batman. Especially considering this thing needs premium you're dropping like $20 in the tank every hour to keep it running. I'd pour $100 for a day trip in her.
It's an awesome bike, but as I thought and heard around here, it just doesn't seem like a $20k bike considering what else is out there.
It's really surprisingly similar to it's predecessor from the driver seat. It's a straight line rocket, designed to conquer drag strips and burn up highways with effortless speed. A big rowdy engine stuffed into a marginal chassis...sound famiar?
Highs:
+Explosive power
+Neat-o instrumentation
+Good transmission
+Killer intake noise
+Riding posture is ideal given the bike's abilities.
Lows:
-Unimpressive brakes
-Chugs premium fuel
-Hard seat
-Abrupt throttle response around town
-Display is hard to see, especially at speed.
'12 H-D Vrod Muscle
Get ready......I liked it. See? Proof I don't universally hate harleys.
But really, this was the surprise of the day. I'll say I was more impressed with the Vrod than the Max, probably because I was expecting the Max to be re-donk-u-lous, and expected this to be, well, a HD. So it exceeded my expectations much more.
Now here's why I liked it so much. It doesn't look, feel, or ride like a "traditional" Harley. The motor fires instantly and without an EFI that gets fussy when hot. It's quiet(too quiet if you ask me). You can actually use the mirrors at idle. Shifting is quiet(no BANG when you grab first), precise, and light. Neutral is easy to find. The clutch action was excellent. Linear grab throughout the lever travel, it was very easy to control without being heavy. Easy to modulate launches.
Out on the road(this year they don't make you go with a guide on the Vrods...so open pass to the highway! w00t) the engine runs smoothly and has a solid, fairly linear powerband. It has decent torque down low, though lugging it around town in fifth is definitely too slow for it's comfort zone. Get the revs up and dump it, power comes on quickly and builds steadily(though not explosively) to the 9000rpm redline. It's got a pretty decent hustle and while the engine doesn't feel as strong as my Max, it does feel "eager" to be revved and generally hot-rodded around. In short, the powertrain is excellent. For only an 1130 twin, it's pretty hot. Since there was no group or guide to stick with(a nice touch only HD does with demos...there's a "suggested" route but otherwise they just give you the bike and you do whatever you please for 30min)...after getting through town I got on I87 and opened the taps. Burning around the on-ramp revealed that the wide handlebars give excellent leverage and it was exceptionally stable over bumps. It was very confidence-inspiring in corners, and keeping the revs above 5k(don't short shift it too much for best results) gives a satisfying acceleration onto the highway. 80mph was almost 6k RPM....it spins pretty fast, though I guess the Max isn't too far off that. Slam to WOT and let's see what it's got. 100 came and went without any hint of speed wobble or instability(something I can't say about any other HD I've driven). Pulled to about 120, crested a hill and began a downhill grade. 125mph indicated was bumping the rev limiter in top gear. With the bike's riding posture(very akin to a sail), I'm really not sure you could hold on much faster than that. I do feel it has power to go faster though, since it revved out to it's limiter pretty quickly. At that speed I felt my butt starting to squish over the little hump on the seat and I was holding on for dear life to the bars. I held this for around 10 seconds, exited, and took the side streets back, hot rodding around cages and other bikes since it's a demo and I'm not out to conserve fuel. Still, on a 30 min ride the needle dropped about 1/8 tank, and at 3/4 indicated the display showed 97 miles to reserve(or left....screen showed "r 97" . So I guess similar to a gen 1.
After the highway "clean out", the idle became kind of unsteady...it surged between about 1000 and 1300 rpm. It wasn't like that initially. Maybe just because it was now how? Dunno. Also, the brakes were excellent. Better than the gen2. The lever had a solid initial bite and a good feel. Good for stock brakes, amazing for a Harley. The front brake seemed like it was actually intended to stop the bike rather than as an afterthought road safety requirement. The rear brake had similar good feel, and in tandem the bike is hauled down from speed with brutal strength. Very impressive. It was easy to handle in traffic. It doesn't roast the inside of your legs like the air cooled do.
The rear tire hooks up well. Very aggressive throttle/clutch play can break it loose for a rolling burnout but unless you're really trying, it puts the power down well. Here's the difference....I know the gen2 is objectively much faster than the Rod. But the fact you can use WOT in low gears and hang on make it feel like you're using everything the bike has, where on the max go past 5k and you're spinning everything away. It makes the bike feel like you're going faster. In short, it's more fun.
Plus, the Muscle I rode was bright yellow, and I have to say I actually thought it was a nice looking bike. The head and tail lights were futuristic and cool looking. The gauge cluster had an analog speedo in the center, 180* sweep tach to the left and 180* sweep fuel gauge (gasp!) to the right. The speedo's numbers are a bit small and hard to read at a glance but it's not awful, probably just take getting used to since the sweep starts at about the 10 o'clock position and 70mph is the direction about 120 would be on the Max/usual speedo. The speedo needle also "twitched" a lot and rarely stayed steady. Dunno if that's how it is or was just this bike. On the whole quality seemed nice....everything fit together well, no gaps, rattles, ect. Everything was solid and smooth.
At $15k, I think it's still a bit overpriced, though compared to a $15k "traditional" Harley, it's hugely better. I could see this bike with a few mods to the riding position and squeezing a bit more oomph from the engine being a really fun ride.
Highs:
+Very un-Harley-ish. Modern in every way.
+Happy, eager engine
+Great clutch and transmission
+Strong brakes.
+Sharp looks(especially in yellow in Muscle trim).
+Overall fit and finish was excellent.
"Iffy"
o- Riding posture. I like the low seat and wide handlebars, but the forward controls are too stretched out and put you in a "sail" position. Midsets would be better.
Lows
-Rev limiter kicks in very abruptly and harshly
-Could use shorter gearing...it's got the power for it.
-Fueling at idle was kind of unsteady
So here comes some blasphemy, but I'd have the Rod over the Max. Really. No, it's not as fast, but I found it overall more fun to ride. The Max is kind of a one-trick pony. It smokes the rear tire on command and goes like stink in a straight line, but the rest of it I found to be just mediocre. Aside from the power, it didn't wow me. The Rod does everything well.
'12 Star VMAX
Well, what else would I take out first? This was also the first bike to get booked for the day (followed by the Super Tenere, then FZ8). From what I can tell there are no cosmetic or functional differences since the 09 introduction, or at least nothing that jumps out at you. Seat height is maybe a touch higher than a gen1, probably a good inch or so compared to my Morley seat. At 5-8 I was on tippy toes at stoplights. Seat felt a lot like the gen1 also. Flat and hard.
The big analog tach with shift light is finally in the right place and the digital speedo has a decently fast refresh. I found the "tank" screen display kind of tough to see, you have to lean backward and look towards your crotch to read it, looking down farther than the tach on a gen1.
As you'd expect, it's got a monster of an engine. Fires up with no fuss and has a decent (if muted) exhaust note. The gearbox is notably improved, neutral is much easier to find and shifting seems a bit lighter and more precise as compared to my '97. Torque is available en masse from about 3k on up, and get it up past 4k and you're in "rolling burnout on demand" territory. It smokes the rear tire with ridiculous ease. The demo bike had 3300 miles and the guy said they just put the third rear tire on it.
Power delivery was surprisingly familiar. Just stronger. Good torque down low, but get the revs up a bit and it swells with RPM. The "v-boost" is more noticeable as a change in the intake noise(which is fantastically mean sounding) than in acceleration.
Handling/stability was predictably better than a gen 1, though not really that much better than my gen 1 that had been lowered with Progressive springs. It wasn't quite as upset by frost heaves while cornering, though that may be simply because it weighs more. Didn't get a chance to wind it up to speed. Turn-in was a bit heavy and the "flick" was rather sluggish. I think wider handlebars would improve the overall feel.
Here were my issues with it.....the brakes. As is yamaha tradition, it has lackluster brakes. The front lever had no "bite" and very poor feel, it was spongy and vague. While they worked adequately, I think better pads and SS lines would do wonders for this. The rear was a similar story.
The blinkers. What is it with new Yamaha's and these wobbly blinker stems? They jiggle and bounce like **** on a trampoline. They look stupid to start with and them wiggling all over the place makes it look cheap. They'd have to go pronto.
The throttle response was also very touchy. In town it requires an extremely precise hand to drive smoothly without big jerks of engine braking, then power, since the difference is just the slightest twitch of your wrist. I realize that's partially because it's got so much torque on tap, but softening up the response(or offering power modes....as bikes half this price have) would improve overall driveability.
In a way, I felt like "more is less" when it came to the power. There's so damn much of it, you go anywhere near the throttle in 1-2-3 and you're smoking the rear tire to kingdom come. It almost makes the bike feel slower since you have to be so careful with the throttle and can really only unleash the power in the upper gears. You have to be very ginger with the throttle to stay anywhere close to speed limits. Talking the slightest touch off idle. This is something I suspect you'd get used to in time, but the rear tire was in no way up to the job of putting that power to the ground.
In a 30 minute demo I went from a tick under full to a tick over half. Holy OPEC batman. Especially considering this thing needs premium you're dropping like $20 in the tank every hour to keep it running. I'd pour $100 for a day trip in her.
It's an awesome bike, but as I thought and heard around here, it just doesn't seem like a $20k bike considering what else is out there.
It's really surprisingly similar to it's predecessor from the driver seat. It's a straight line rocket, designed to conquer drag strips and burn up highways with effortless speed. A big rowdy engine stuffed into a marginal chassis...sound famiar?
Highs:
+Explosive power
+Neat-o instrumentation
+Good transmission
+Killer intake noise
+Riding posture is ideal given the bike's abilities.
Lows:
-Unimpressive brakes
-Chugs premium fuel
-Hard seat
-Abrupt throttle response around town
-Display is hard to see, especially at speed.
'12 H-D Vrod Muscle
Get ready......I liked it. See? Proof I don't universally hate harleys.
But really, this was the surprise of the day. I'll say I was more impressed with the Vrod than the Max, probably because I was expecting the Max to be re-donk-u-lous, and expected this to be, well, a HD. So it exceeded my expectations much more.
Now here's why I liked it so much. It doesn't look, feel, or ride like a "traditional" Harley. The motor fires instantly and without an EFI that gets fussy when hot. It's quiet(too quiet if you ask me). You can actually use the mirrors at idle. Shifting is quiet(no BANG when you grab first), precise, and light. Neutral is easy to find. The clutch action was excellent. Linear grab throughout the lever travel, it was very easy to control without being heavy. Easy to modulate launches.
Out on the road(this year they don't make you go with a guide on the Vrods...so open pass to the highway! w00t) the engine runs smoothly and has a solid, fairly linear powerband. It has decent torque down low, though lugging it around town in fifth is definitely too slow for it's comfort zone. Get the revs up and dump it, power comes on quickly and builds steadily(though not explosively) to the 9000rpm redline. It's got a pretty decent hustle and while the engine doesn't feel as strong as my Max, it does feel "eager" to be revved and generally hot-rodded around. In short, the powertrain is excellent. For only an 1130 twin, it's pretty hot. Since there was no group or guide to stick with(a nice touch only HD does with demos...there's a "suggested" route but otherwise they just give you the bike and you do whatever you please for 30min)...after getting through town I got on I87 and opened the taps. Burning around the on-ramp revealed that the wide handlebars give excellent leverage and it was exceptionally stable over bumps. It was very confidence-inspiring in corners, and keeping the revs above 5k(don't short shift it too much for best results) gives a satisfying acceleration onto the highway. 80mph was almost 6k RPM....it spins pretty fast, though I guess the Max isn't too far off that. Slam to WOT and let's see what it's got. 100 came and went without any hint of speed wobble or instability(something I can't say about any other HD I've driven). Pulled to about 120, crested a hill and began a downhill grade. 125mph indicated was bumping the rev limiter in top gear. With the bike's riding posture(very akin to a sail), I'm really not sure you could hold on much faster than that. I do feel it has power to go faster though, since it revved out to it's limiter pretty quickly. At that speed I felt my butt starting to squish over the little hump on the seat and I was holding on for dear life to the bars. I held this for around 10 seconds, exited, and took the side streets back, hot rodding around cages and other bikes since it's a demo and I'm not out to conserve fuel. Still, on a 30 min ride the needle dropped about 1/8 tank, and at 3/4 indicated the display showed 97 miles to reserve(or left....screen showed "r 97" . So I guess similar to a gen 1.
After the highway "clean out", the idle became kind of unsteady...it surged between about 1000 and 1300 rpm. It wasn't like that initially. Maybe just because it was now how? Dunno. Also, the brakes were excellent. Better than the gen2. The lever had a solid initial bite and a good feel. Good for stock brakes, amazing for a Harley. The front brake seemed like it was actually intended to stop the bike rather than as an afterthought road safety requirement. The rear brake had similar good feel, and in tandem the bike is hauled down from speed with brutal strength. Very impressive. It was easy to handle in traffic. It doesn't roast the inside of your legs like the air cooled do.
The rear tire hooks up well. Very aggressive throttle/clutch play can break it loose for a rolling burnout but unless you're really trying, it puts the power down well. Here's the difference....I know the gen2 is objectively much faster than the Rod. But the fact you can use WOT in low gears and hang on make it feel like you're using everything the bike has, where on the max go past 5k and you're spinning everything away. It makes the bike feel like you're going faster. In short, it's more fun.
Plus, the Muscle I rode was bright yellow, and I have to say I actually thought it was a nice looking bike. The head and tail lights were futuristic and cool looking. The gauge cluster had an analog speedo in the center, 180* sweep tach to the left and 180* sweep fuel gauge (gasp!) to the right. The speedo's numbers are a bit small and hard to read at a glance but it's not awful, probably just take getting used to since the sweep starts at about the 10 o'clock position and 70mph is the direction about 120 would be on the Max/usual speedo. The speedo needle also "twitched" a lot and rarely stayed steady. Dunno if that's how it is or was just this bike. On the whole quality seemed nice....everything fit together well, no gaps, rattles, ect. Everything was solid and smooth.
At $15k, I think it's still a bit overpriced, though compared to a $15k "traditional" Harley, it's hugely better. I could see this bike with a few mods to the riding position and squeezing a bit more oomph from the engine being a really fun ride.
Highs:
+Very un-Harley-ish. Modern in every way.
+Happy, eager engine
+Great clutch and transmission
+Strong brakes.
+Sharp looks(especially in yellow in Muscle trim).
+Overall fit and finish was excellent.
"Iffy"
o- Riding posture. I like the low seat and wide handlebars, but the forward controls are too stretched out and put you in a "sail" position. Midsets would be better.
Lows
-Rev limiter kicks in very abruptly and harshly
-Could use shorter gearing...it's got the power for it.
-Fueling at idle was kind of unsteady
So here comes some blasphemy, but I'd have the Rod over the Max. Really. No, it's not as fast, but I found it overall more fun to ride. The Max is kind of a one-trick pony. It smokes the rear tire on command and goes like stink in a straight line, but the rest of it I found to be just mediocre. Aside from the power, it didn't wow me. The Rod does everything well.
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