My jet kit part 2

[EAGLEPI]

Well I just picked up my VMAX from the shop I took it to after the dealership couldn't get the kit installed correctly. If you care to read the history on my adventure feel free to read the threads below.


http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=7938

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=7972

OK, I'm still confused, the bike seems to run fine with one exception and I hope I can bring the bike back tomorrow and they can look at what is causing this problem. When I am in first gear at a stop and start to take off it feels like it bogs out for a second and then it catches and it seems fine after that, I'm noticing a slight throttle delay in lower gears 1st ad 2nd.

I'm a bit confused and not sure what to think about these dyno runs, maybe I can get some suggestions from the guys on the forum.

Here is the final run on the dyno at the dealership

This is the first run at the new shop​

Notice the difference between the 2 dynos in A/F



​

Here is the final run at the new shop​

The dyno sheet looks good but the bog and throttle problem still exsist..​

What next???​

:ummm: :bang head:​

Ron​

 

[Birdoprey]

Not sure off hand on the low rpm bog. Thats some dyno though! I'll admit that i was a bit skeptical of your first dyno run as the hp was a good deal higher than your mods suggest. Your backup run at the new shop is AMAZINGLY close. Your final dyno pull was where you should be and looks good. A/F looks a bit rich down low and a bit lean up top, but not real bad. TQ curve is nice and there are no spikes/dips in the hp pull. Should feel much more impressive compared with what you had at the start.
I'm sure Sean or someone else will chime in on the bogg down low...

 

[Birdoprey]

I wonder if the first shop had a problem with their a/f moniter? Or, maybe they did'nt get the probe far enough up into the exhaust. The first shop shows it to be waaaaaay lean. The second shop shows it to be waaaay rich.

 

[maleko89]

Your pilot mixture looks rich...at least from 2-3500. What are your mixture screws set too? Have the shop make sure PAJ1 is Mikuni 90 and PAJ2 is Mikuni 170. You may benefit by running Mikuni 177.5's in the PAJ2 spot. I would leave your mains and needles alone.

 

[EAGLEPI]

The dealership told me he had 160 mains in but when the new shop looked they were 157.5 and stage 7 needle was 2 slots from the top. Now the mains are 152.5 and needle is 2 slots from the bottom. I'll have to ask about the mixture screws tomorrow and print out this thread so the mechanic can see the suggestins.

Thanks
Ron

 

[one2dmax]

Definetly give marks suggestions a try. Might even be able to just close up the A/F screws a bit but I did include the 177.5's for just a situation like this.

I would be all up in the asses of the dealership too. In fact, I would even prefer an apology from them for slandering me and the kit. I can't help it if they are using faulty equipment (and it would have helped the mechanic too if they would have had good readings).

Sean

 

[one2dmax]

Actually, looking at it again it may be that you can go up one main jet size and get the chart almost flatlined on the A/F curve. Probably pick up another 2-3 hp. But, if the bike runs to your liking up top the leaner main will help economy.

Sean

 

[EAGLEPI]

Sean,
I don't blame you for feeling as you do about the dealership, The GM didn't charge me anything so I don't want to press the issue but it wasn'tme who "They" trashed.

I hope you noticed that every post I made I made it very clear I wasn't blaming your kit even though they were.

The mechanic at the new place said he worked with you and he was impressed with your kit and your knowledge. The dealership people were assholes


I emailed you about a seat tonight...

Ron

 

[sbeduckman]

I've been quietly following your situation....glad to see it coming to a positive end. I have no advice to give, as the guru's have already chimed in. From the looks of that dyno though, you've got a screamer of a bike! I would, at the very least, fax a copy of that dyno run to the dealership, attn: Shitty mechanic....with a little hand-drawn stick figure man flipping the bird...

 

[EAGLEPI]

LOL, I would but they didn't charge me and I don't want them to change thier mind

 

[kaboom]

I......like duckman......have no advice....but maybe the shop owner might appreciate knowing that his equipment and/or operators are out of whack.....

Before they burn up a piston or 3.....

Just a thought:confused2:

 

[mymax04]

Thats good stuff man. People have said that the dragstar wont make as much power as the kerker but numbers prove that it will. Im glad to see you got it worked out. :clapping:unk::eusa_dance::biglaugh:

 

[gamorg02]

go back and talk to the GM. show them the new curves, no reason to be a dick but tell them the new mechanic and others have looked and it may appear their equipment is off. come from the standpoint of someone trying to help out. then bring up the fact that sean knows his shit....

they were assholes, but approach it calmly and i bet u'll get farther. my experience at least...

 

[EAGLEPI]

Trust me I have fought hard for Sean and I have stated many times that Sean knows more in his little finger than the dealership's mechanic. We had that discussion for over 40 minutes. I didn't leave Sean hanging, in fact that is why they wanted to get rid of me. I did email the GM with the dyno sheets and kindly suggested they need to calabrate thier dyno... I'll post any reply I get.

What sucks is here is another weekend that my bike isn't running right, it needs just a little more tweaking but the mechanic at the new shop in scheduled full in the dyno all day. I guess I wait until Monday

If I had any idea of what to do I would be out in my garage trying things myself.

Ron

 

[EAGLEPI]

Just got this reply from the GM


Ron,

Preliminary numbers look like a vast improvement. But you have to see the real conditions and setups that they were using to get these numbers. You can manipulate these printouts to read whatever you want them to read up to a point. They have left a lot of settings off their report that we leave on our report to show what exact conditions like air temp, elevation, etc., etc. I am going to have Henry send you an email for you to retrieve the exact conditions at which they achieved their print out below and also what Main Jet size did you guys end up putting in the bike? The biggest one that the kit came with was a 160 and you said there was a 157.5 in the bike which is only 1 step below a 160 so there wouldnt have been a huge difference in performance from a 160 to a 157.5.

Just want to see the actual conditions in which they used to print their final report off on. They should be able to give you a print out just like the one we have for you below.

Thanks for info and looking to here from you soon.

Jonathan

 

[one2dmax]

You need to check your kit. There should be jets all the way up to 165's including a set of 177.5's. The GM obviously must not have all the facts. Typically each jet size you are off is 2-3 hp. Too rich you lose HP, too lean you lose Torque. You need to get him that info or even better yet you can get the file and he can load it into his machine and see the exact thing on thier machine.

I talked to the new mechanic and they are using the 250i dynojet machine with Gen 4 A/F sniffer.

You ended up with smaller mains and not larger like they thought. In all actuality if they hadn't swapped the needles out for the stage seven you would have saved money and maybe needed bigger mains (which were there). The stage seven (and 1) needles are richer by their design and not normally needed to tune the bike in.

In this particular case we have a mechanic who is working and trying to tune with equipment that is obviously out of calibration. We discussed the problem in pretty good detail and I even asked him if the sniffer was calibrated. What made me question it was the fact he stated that when he tried the larger mains the bike actually went leaner. This is not possible unless some other new condition arose.

If he wants to question anyones readings and manipulation I think he needs to look at his charts. They vary greatly from over 100 degrees one day to just over 70 the next. That doesn't happen with a decent climate controlled room that I was under the impression that they had.

Feel free to send this note to them as well.

Sean Morley
Morley's Muscle

 

[EAGLEPI]

This is my reply to the GM,

I understand what you are implying and as a customer I have to trust the shop ( which I do ) that they did not

"manipulate these printouts to read whatever you want them to read up to a point"

Solid Performance did have the run conditions but they just couldn't fit on the sheet I sent you, I'm attaching a copy of the sheet with those conditions.

Just as I trusted that U Motors wouldn't do that.

The designer of my Jet Kit is a well known VMAX expert, he is the one you referred to as "The Internet Guy" and he has added the following comments,

You need to check your kit. There should be jets all the way up to 165's including a set of 177.5's. The GM obviously must not have all the facts. Typically each jet size you are off is 2-3 hp. Too rich you lose HP, too lean you lose Torque. You need to get him that info or even better yet you can get the file and he can load it into his machine and see the exact thing on their machine.

I talked to the new mechanic and they are using the 250i dynojet machine with Gen 4 A/F sniffer.

You ended up with smaller mains and not larger like they thought. In all actuality if they hadn't swapped the needles out for the stage seven you would have saved money and maybe needed bigger mains (which were there). The stage seven (and 1) needles are richer by their design and not normally needed to tune the bike in.

In this particular case we have a mechanic who is working and trying to tune with equipment that is obviously out of calibration. We discussed the problem in pretty good detail and I even asked him if the sniffer was calibrated. What made me question it was the fact he stated that when he tried the larger mains the bike actually went leaner. This is not possible unless some other new condition arose.

If he wants to question anyone's readings and manipulation I think he needs to look at his charts. They vary greatly from over 100 degrees one day to just over 70 the next. That doesn't happen with a decent climate controlled room that I was under the impression that they had.

Feel free to send this note to them as well.

Sean Morley
Morley's Muscle
__________________
Later,
Sean Morley
Our Website - Morley's MuscleCars and MuscleBikes -
first site http://tinyurl.com/9d36u
main site http://www.MorleysMuscle.com



Once again I am not trying to cause any bad feelings I am only trying to point out that your dyno might be off which I'm sure you would want to know if it is a fact. The mains in the kit now are 152.5, the 157.5 was what was in the bike when it left your shop, Randy told me the mains were 160 so he must have been mistaken and my point is if he thought he had 160's in but only had 157.5 it would affect any other adjustments he made thinking 160 mains were in the carbs.

As fair as the run conditions on your dyno, Randy told me that the temps were not reading correctly when I asked why it was 106 degree in the dyno.

Thanks again

Ron

 

[one2dmax]

Good info to send. If the mechanic even said the temps were off then the whole dyno chart can not be trusted from them. The graphs and A/F (if the meter was right) would still provide beneficial information but be skewed to provide incorrect power readings (too high if the temp was not that actual amount).

Some can "manipulate" the charts by sticking a heat source near the environmental sensors which give higher the actual numbers. With what I had seen on their charts this is exactly what I would have suspected they did but if it was unintentional so be it.

Sean