Not sure where to go next on electrical issue

[Hypocycloid3]

FIXED!! ~ Not sure where to go next on electrical issue

Apologies in advance for starting a new topic on this but not even sure if it's a charging issue anymore and didn't know which of the previous to post this on.

Previous Symptom = Battery not charging, and constantly operating just below 12v but could ride an hour or so, would have to trickle charge every night. Been using this post as reference among others http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=19108

New Symptom = Following Stator replacement last night with a previously working used one I got from another member here.... - Sputtered and died this morning about 1/2 mile from home as soon as I let the revs drop and now, starts (sometimes) with a lot of cranking and choke but stumbles and dies as soon as any throttle is applied.

Situation = '94, everyday driver, cranks great, 12.8 volts across battery, 13+ at 1k rpm 14+ at 5k rpm. No visible corrosion, loose grounds, damaged wires etc ,

Replaced in this order: Battery, R/R, Stator. I have also:

-bypassed crimp with new grounds from R/R red wire direct to pos battery post, and from the R/R black wire mounting bolt to neg battery post

-eliminated quick connectors and used butt type btwn Stator and R/R, with particular care to make tight well insulated connections touching nothing else

-ran an extra ground from inside the starter. (was already the 4 brush type but did this anyway)

*weird thing to consider* during a bench test both the replacement and the old stator are showing zero resistance across all three phase wires using an ohm meter I trust, aren't they suppose to be in the ball park of .8 ohms there?

... since I used the old stator with the new R/R (from ricksmotorsportelectrics.com) for a few weeks while continuing to troubleshoot, could it be that the old stator affected the new Rectifier Regulator and the now compromised R/R has now damaged the good used Stator i just introduced to it?? Is this maybe how a failing pickup might be exposed after having new working parts introduced around it?? :bang head: I just don't know which way to turn anymore and thinking I am gonna have to spend a small fortune to start over with an OEM, Stator, R/R, and Pickup and who knows what else

 

[Erikvb]

Funny. Looks like we have been working on the same issue this week. You can read my post in the HOWTO section.

But where my problem was solved by attending to the wiring/grounds. Yours appears to still exist.

1 You have 13+ at 1000 rpm. Is this idle? My idle rpm was too low and it makes a lot of difference.

2 i noticed that the head light sucks about 1 volt at idle. You can try by pulling the 15A breaker (please do this with ignition off, will spark otherwise)

3 i dont see how the stator change could hurt the r/r, have you measured the volts on the 3 individual phases? Run the motor and poke the red probe of a multimeter on each of the 3 wires coming out of the dynamo. Push the black on the - of the battery. Chances are that it is fine.

4 run the bike with a voltmeter taped to the faux tank so you can see what goes on during a drive. Below 12,5 volts you are not charging. Maybe things are different when riding (cooling fan may be draining your volts too)


Hope these things solve your problem

 

[jfeagins]

Apologies in advance for starting a new topic on this but not even sure if it's a charging issue anymore and didn't know which of the previous to post this on.

Previous Symptom = Battery not charging, and constantly operating just below 12v but could ride an hour or so, would have to trickle charge every night. Been using this post as reference among others http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=19108

New Symptom = Following Stator replacement last night with a previously working used one I got from another member here.... - Sputtered and died this morning about 1/2 mile from home as soon as I let the revs drop and now, starts (sometimes) with a lot of cranking and choke but stumbles and dies as soon as any throttle is applied.
Situation = '94, everyday driver, cranks great, 12.8 volts across battery, 13+ at 1k rpm 14+ at 5k rpm. No visible corrosion, loose grounds, damaged wires etc ,

Replaced in this order: Battery, R/R, Stator. I have also:

-bypassed crimp with new grounds from R/R red wire direct to pos battery post, and from the R/R black wire mounting bolt to neg battery post

-eliminated quick connectors and used butt type btwn Stator and R/R, with particular care to make tight well insulated connections touching nothing else

-ran an extra ground from inside the starter. (was already the 4 brush type but did this anyway)

*weird thing to consider* during a bench test both the replacement and the old stator are showing zero resistance across all three phase wires using an ohm meter I trust, aren't they suppose to be in the ball park of .8 ohms there?

... since I used the old stator with the new R/R (from ricksmotorsportelectrics.com) for a few weeks while continuing to troubleshoot, could it be that the old stator affected the new Rectifier Regulator and the now compromised R/R has now damaged the good used Stator i just introduced to it?? Is this maybe how a failing pickup might be exposed after having new working parts introduced around it?? :bang head: I just don't know which way to turn anymore and thinking I am gonna have to spend a small fortune to start over with an OEM, Stator, R/R, and Pickup and who knows what else

Have you considered this new symptom might be unrelated to the first problems you were experiencing with your charging system, and instead, may be carb related?

 

[Hypocycloid3]

Have you considered this new symptom might be unrelated to the first problems you were experiencing with your charging system, and instead, may be carb related?

Carb issues are definitely always a possibility and I would typically be all over that first with this symptom but it seems odd that I have ridden it every day over the past couple of weeks with only the typical charging issue before swapping stators. I suppose doing the old shot gun procedure on the carbs couldn't hurt.

 

[Hypocycloid3]

Funny. Looks like we have been working on the same issue this week. You can read my post in the HOWTO section.

But where my problem was solved by attending to the wiring/grounds. Yours appears to still exist.

1 You have 13+ at 1000 rpm. Is this idle? My idle rpm was too low and it makes a lot of difference.

2 i noticed that the head light sucks about 1 volt at idle. You can try by pulling the 15A breaker (please do this with ignition off, will spark otherwise)

3 i dont see how the stator change could hurt the r/r, have you measured the volts on the 3 individual phases? Run the motor and poke the red probe of a multimeter on each of the 3 wires coming out of the dynamo. Push the black on the - of the battery. Chances are that it is fine.



4 run the bike with a voltmeter taped to the faux tank so you can see what goes on during a drive. Below 12,5 volts you are not charging. Maybe things are different when riding (cooling fan may be draining your volts too)


Hope these things solve your problem

-------------------
Forgot to mention above ... I had already disconnected the fan temporarily just to eliminate it from the equation. And have a mechanical cruise control installed on the handle bar so it was easy to make sure the idle was right about 1k or a little over, this check was done last night before it died on me this morning tho. At any rate, it cranks like crazy after sitting on the battery tender all night so don't think the current problem is for a lack of voltage. If I can get it to start today as soon as i can get home from work, will AC Voltmeter the stator output with motor running, and rigging a volt meter to the faux tank for running DC voltage checks across the battery while riding the the bike is an idea I never thought of. Thanks!

 

[Traumahawk]

Carb issues are definitely always a possibility and I would typically be all over that first with this symptom but it seems odd that I have ridden it every day over the past couple of weeks with only the typical charging issue before swapping stators. I suppose doing the old shot gun procedure on the carbs couldn't hurt.

With the quality of the gas that we have, a shotgun wouldnt hurt.

 

[Erikvb]

-------------------
Forgot to mention above ... I had already disconnected the fan temporarily just to eliminate it from the equation. And have a mechanical cruise control installed on the handle bar so it was easy to make sure the idle was right about 1k or a little over, this check was done last night before it died on me this morning tho. At any rate, it cranks like crazy after sitting on the battery tender all night so don't think the current problem is for a lack of voltage. If I can get it to start today as soon as i can get home from work, will AC Voltmeter the stator output with motor running, and rigging a volt meter to the faux tank for running DC voltage checks across the battery while riding the the bike is an idea I never thought of. Thanks!

here's another idea. If your charging system checks out OK after a road test, but it still tends to stall, i would check the coils. The shop manual explains how to check resistance in the coils (similar to stator) and on top of that check the connections on them. If they are less than perfect, chances are they get worse when the bike is hot.

 

[Miles Long]

Some great suggestions here!
My question - after it stalls, does it turn over well, but just not start?
If so, I would guess it's not a charging problem, as Jim suggests, but something carb related, or MAYBE pickup related.
In any case, get yourself a PERMANENT on-board voltmeter! With these wonky V-max charging systems, the best investment you will make. Dandy for fault-finding, and just may save you a loooong walk home.
Cheers!

 

[Hypocycloid3]

FIXED!!! (or 98% sure since I have not been able to do a test ride farther then just around the neighborhood yet)

Got to thinking about what jfeagins, Miles & Traumahawk said about carbs/gas etc and the WAY it died sputtering, .. So went home over the noon hour, shotgunned the hell out of the carbs and VOILA. Fires right up. So gonna call this 2 issues at once. Coincidence? Probably not so much since I have been wrenching on it off and on for a month. Guess I disturbed all the 'grime' from rides past and managed to get a jet clogged somehow. Anyway, MUCH THANKS for the intervention! Was difficult to think outside the box of say 'charging system' for me once in full blown voltage obsession I suppose. Don't know what I would do without you guys. ~ Bill in Tucson. (MILES LONG: ... my loooong walk home was this morning, it was only about 1/2 a mile but I turn 48 this month so pushing a VMax is NOT going to get any easier! do you have a on board volt meter you recommend? )

... and speaking of loooong walks.... this thing is, um.. interesting at best... http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/mpo/4865029765.html ~ not sure I would trust my vmax to anything like this even for a short tow home since I have a trailer but have any of you guys ever braved something like this to tow a 500+lb street bike?

 

[Traumahawk]

Good!!!!!!

 

[Traumahawk]

I had to shotgun my carbs last summer, and the ONLY way that I found it was that I started the lean out the carbs by going DOWN a jet size. THEN it popped up. Being rich can cover a multitude of sins...

 

[Erikvb]

FIXED!!! (or 98% sure since I have not been able to do a test ride farther then just around the neighborhood yet)

Got to thinking about what jfeagins, Miles & Traumahawk said about carbs/gas etc and the WAY it died sputtering, .. So went home over the noon hour, shotgunned the hell out of the carbs and VOILA. Fires right up. So gonna call this 2 issues at once. Coincidence? Probably not so much since I have been wrenching on it off and on for a month. Guess I disturbed all the 'grime' from rides past and managed to get a jet clogged somehow. Anyway, MUCH THANKS for the intervention! Was difficult to think outside the box of say 'charging system' for me once in full blown voltage obsession I suppose. Don't know what I would do without you guys. ~ Bill in Tucson. (MILES LONG: ... my loooong walk home was this morning, it was only about 1/2 a mile but I turn 48 this month so pushing a VMax is NOT going to get any easier! do you have a on board volt meter you recommend? )

... and speaking of loooong walks.... this thing is, um.. interesting at best... http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/mpo/4865029765.html ~ not sure I would trust my vmax to anything like this even for a short tow home since I have a trailer but have any of you guys ever braved something like this to tow a 500+lb street bike?

Never tried, but if I google "Motorcycle dolly trailer" I get a world of pics of people who do. Check this guy out:

 

[Hypocycloid3]

Well, there you have it I guess.

 

[jagco1]

You can also try to if you have the stock air box on the bike. You can take each black hose and run wd-40 through it - motor running when the motor idle start to change stop, go do the next hose each time.

This works for me. I had problems in the beginning carbs gas bad and gas tank was a little rusted. I replace everything with new.