performance fuels....

[MR_NST]

Just hummin around the net and came across the vp fuel website... gonna shoot the bike down the track this weekend and was wondering if anyone has played around with fuels for this purpose?

i understand c12 is a leaded fuel and would probably not help but the new oxygenated fuels like u4.4 ive been reading that these help a stock engine quite a bit. Im not opposed to trying stuff out for the sake of it, but if its proven and deemed not worth it then ill just stick to pump gas. altho its still cool to say i tried i guess.

debate on. if you could please state the race fuel you tried and the tune or results that you felt that would be great. my bike is morleyd and marked and thats about it. so if you are nitroused or blown, unfortunately your info isnt as relevant as a bike like my set up is. thanks for the info.

this isnt a 92 vs 87 octane question either just to be clear.

peace,
evan...

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I don't know about the latest race fuels etc.....but if its simply higher octane then your going to lose HP, high octane burns slower in an effort to combat detonation, which is a condition almost impossible to create on a stock Vmax motor...hence higher octane equals slower burn, equals less HP....

I tried some 100 octane before thinking that I could feed it more advance with the Dyna 3000 and couldn't find any timing curve that would accommodate that octane on the stock motor.

But your mention of newer fuels does Interest me in regards to oxygenated fuels etc....maybe there is something to be had there??.....more oxygen in fuel equals "leaning it out" ???, I don't know if its that simple so once again "down the rabbit hole" for answers...

If the above is what oxygenated does amount to then perhaps bumping down in jet size would be as good??!?

Basic hot rod principle is that maximum horsepower is made right on the edge of detonation.....

 

[Dr.n2o]

One thing I remember about oxygenated fuels when i was at the track every weekend was the guys that were running it in sport bikes with injection had to drain it out after racing. It's very harsh on components if left in. It's also not good to breathe in however people claimed performance gains from using it. I'm not sure how it would work on carburetor bikes because I can only remember injected sport bikes running it.

 

[Fire-medic]

My friend's shop (Under Pressure, Dania Beach FL) had a CBR600 belonging to one of the guys who works there, part-time. They put his bike on a local dyno, it made 99+ h.p. They drained the tank, and used racing fuel, and ran it again, it picked-up 6 h.p. I am not sure which brand it was or the formulation, I could ask if anyone was interested in the particulars.

 

[MR_NST]

I am aware of the corrosion properties with the oxygenated fuels. they also say that you should go up 2 sizes with the jetting which I realize im prett6 fat up top on my setup. im hoping it might work. im sure someone here has personal experience with this type of fuel. keep it coming guys.

peace,
evan....

 

[Warp12]

VP MR12 is the fuel you would want. It is about $135 for 5 gallons (give or take, depending on your location). Probably good for 5 hp on a V-Max. Unless you are little fat on the jetting, you would get the best gain with an adjustment. On my FI bikes, I typically add +5-6% fuel to the Power Commander when using MR12. On a 185-200 hp bike, we see 6-8 hp gain, regularly.

The most important thing is get all of the MR12 out of there when you are done. It will gum up and make a real mess. Run a fair amount of pump fuel through the system afterwards. Ride it around a bit. Also, do not bother just adding MR12 to what you have in the tank, you will give up most if not all the gain.

The V-Max would be relatively simple to set up a switched pump setup for when you need to drain the tank. The fuel pump and fuel line is pretty easy to access. I plan to run mine on MR12 in the Fall.

 

[srk468]

VP MR12 is the fuel you would want. It is about $135 for 5 gallons (give or take, depending on your location). Probably good for 5 hp on a V-Max. Unless you are little fat on the jetting, you would get the best gain with an adjustment. On my FI bikes, I typically add +5-6% fuel to the Power Commander when using MR12. On a 185-200 hp bike, we see 6-8 hp gain, regularly.

The most important thing is get all of the MR12 out of there when you are done. It will gum up and make a real mess. Run a fair amount of pump fuel through the system afterwards. Ride it around a bit. Also, do not bother just adding MR12 to what you have in the tank, you will give up most if not all the gain.

The V-Max would be relatively simple to set up a switched pump setup for when you need to drain the tank. The fuel pump and fuel line is pretty easy to access. I plan to run mine on MR12 in the Fall.

Thank you! I have a drain valve on my tank and can drain the system pretty easily.. Might have to try this next time I race..

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[Warp12]

Thank you! I have a drain valve on my tank and can drain the system pretty easily.. Might have to try this next time I race..

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Also, if you are spraying nitrous, you will want to use a different fuel, such as VP MRX-01 or MRX-02. MR12 is not usually recommended for use with nitrous.

 

[MR_NST]

now this is the info im looking for.... thank you warp 12.

peace,
evan....

 

[jbretthorton]

I have run MR12 a couple times in my Gen II
I added @ 10% fuel to my power commander
I gained 9.6 hp with just the fuel added...
Good stuff, but as suggested do not run it mixed and do not leave in tank.
Also once the can is opened, you need to run it all, it does have a very short opened life.
Only worth it IMO if you have gotten all you can from your current setup... i.e. perfect launch, perfect shifts, etc..

 

[CaptainKyle]

I have run MR12 a couple times in my Gen II
I added @ 10% fuel to my power commander
I gained 9.6 hp with just the fuel added...
Good stuff, but as suggested do not run it mixed and do not leave in tank.
Also once the can is opened, you need to run it all, it does have a very short opened life.
Only worth it IMO if you have gotten all you can from your current setup... i.e. perfect launch, perfect shifts, etc..

Where you buying it Brett ? Once I get a 10.7 off pump gas with the stock motor I might have to try this.

 

[srk468]

Also, if you are spraying nitrous, you will want to use a different fuel, such as VP MRX-01 or MRX-02. MR12 is not usually recommended for use with nitrous.

Yea I wasn't planning on spraying with it, that's the whole reason I put in the drain valve because I spay with 100 octane unleaded but the bike runs like shit on it on the motor so I wanted to be able to drain it down and run regular gas on motor... If it goes bad immediately then I'll probably pass on it, I was hoping to only use a couple gallons each time I race so I could justify the cost a little lol great info though so thanks again!

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[Warp12]

It doesn't go bad immediately. You need to make sure to seal the can back, and don't damage the spout. Think of it like opening a soda, and resealing it. I have used it a month later or so without issue. What you could do is open the can at the track day, and sell half of it right then! Lots of people running MR12!!

 

[RaWarrior]

A lot of the gain from using these specialty fuels is simply because they're not E10. Back to back, an engine on straight gas makes 2-3% more power than it does on E10.

I don't know the chemistry of the various specialty blends, but they play on the same principle, while ethanol has less energy density than gasoline, some oxygenates have more, and in conservative blends can be run in otherwise stock engines without damage and get a small power gain. The trade off is obviously cost and a very short shelf life in the presence of air...why you can't leave it in the bike/carbs.

Not sure if it's still around but Klotz used to sell this stuff called Nitro which was kind of "converted" regular fuel into these specialty fuels. It wasn't just bogus octane booster, saw a few articles proving on a dyno it did add a few percent more power no other changes. It came in these smallish bottles that was enough for roughly 1 motorcycle tank of fuel.

 

[Warp12]

A lot of the gain from using these specialty fuels is simply because they're not E10. Back to back, an engine on straight gas makes 2-3% more power than it does on E10.

I don't know the chemistry of the various specialty blends, but they play on the same principle, while ethanol has less energy density than gasoline, some oxygenates have more, and in conservative blends can be run in otherwise stock engines without damage and get a small power gain. The trade off is obviously cost and a very short shelf life in the presence of air...why you can't leave it in the bike/carbs.

Not sure if it's still around but Klotz used to sell this stuff called Nitro which was kind of "converted" regular fuel into these specialty fuels. It wasn't just bogus octane booster, saw a few articles proving on a dyno it did add a few percent more power no other changes. It came in these smallish bottles that was enough for roughly 1 motorcycle tank of fuel.

On an FI bike, with both fuels mapped properly, this is really not an issue. Ethanol content alone does not lead to a loss of power; you will find that a modern FI bike mapped for E85 fuel will produce more hp and torque than when mapped on pump gas of 10% ethanol. MR12 will produce 6-8 hp on a 185-200 hp bike, with two different FI maps (one appropriate for pump, on for MR12). Fuel such as MR12 will produce significantly more hp than even 100% gasoline. This has been dyno and track proven for years.

When you talk about just "dumping the fuel in", in back-to-back tests, you are not properly adusting the fueling for each fuel (especially a bike with a carb), typically. That adds another variable into the mix.

I have run a variety of fuels, and certainly more than 100 gallons of MR9/12, along with hundreds of dyno pulls and track time. As I say, I will test the MR12 in the V-Max this Fall. In the meantime, I am putting together a 240 hp naturally aspirated bike, running on E85 (not a V-Max).

Now, for the average V-max rider/racer, would I bother with a race fuel such as MR12? No. But then I would just have to accept the fact that my bike wasn't making the most power it could!

 

[Rick52]

I have read some really good info on the Brocks website about Wynn's Power Charge. Check it out
rick

 

[KJShover]

We don't use that E shit up here. They tried decades ago, then they ended up getting rid of it. Some of the racers (me included) used VP racing fuel, the norm in the bracket racing folks was just 100 low lead AV-gas. I used the VP in the turbo nitrous bike and for the nitrous XS11 just normal pump gas.

Back in the good 'ol days up here, there used to be a lube shop that sold regular, supreme, and 100 low lead all at the pump. I miss them days, they would close down that main street that runs through town and host drag races there. nothing like seeing rails and funny's flying down a public road. They later went to the highway, then the airstrip on the local army base, then to another highway

Here is a video of a good friend of mine, Jim, running. There is clips from Alaska raceway park and the airstrip on the army base.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ogVNqd81JE



.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Back in the good 'ol days up here, there used to be a lube shop that sold regular, supreme, and 100 low lead all at the pump



.

There's a gas station/Nitrous bottle refill/ misc. hot rod parts place near my house that sells racing fuel out of the pump.

Will not pump it into a car that's being driven. Only trailered cars and portable containers.

 

[CaptainKyle]

There's a gas station/Nitrous bottle refill/ misc. hot rod parts place near my house that sells racing fuel out of the pump.

Will not pump it into a car that's being driven. Only trailered cars and portable containers.

Well you do live by one of the worlds fastest tracks. I sure miss that place