Radial Brakes anyone?

[98Redlne]

http://www.over.jp/item/83-34-12/

Found this on the Over Racing japan site, thought it was interesting to say the least.

 

[Mod Monkey]

Hmmmm, I am sending a squad to investigate this upgade! I will say though that they would be even better with a set of Galfer Wave Rotors instead of stockers:eusa_dance:

 

[Thevmaxrider]

I would be curious to see exactly what you are getting from them. Based on price I would bet it is only the brackets. Have looked at a conversion kit by Braketech that would convert my 03 R1 front end to larger rotors, but with standard brake calipers. Interesting idea though.

 

[naughtyG]

I, for one, never fully understood the actual advantage of mounting the caliper 'radially', as seems to have become the norm on modern sports bikes in the last couple of years.

Anyone knows the physics?

 

[Mod Monkey]

I, for one, never fully understood the actual advantage of mounting the caliper 'radially', as seems to have become the norm on modern sports bikes in the last couple of years.

Anyone knows the physics?

Ahhh to impart some Monkey knowledge. Think of a line from the center of the wheel out to the center of the brake caliper. This line acts as a "torque arm", the longer the torque arm the more "power" it can generate, or in this case use to slow you down. By using a larger diameter rotor AND moving the caliper out to a stiffer mounting point you effectively increase the braking power AND decrease the amount of pressure needed under load to bring the bike to a stop. This leads to less brake fade under high stress operating conditions and better all around performance......

And who said that the Monkey doesn't know what he is talking about:ummm:

PS: It also changes the angle at which the rotor is passing through the center line of the caliper which gives it better braking, more linear if I am using the term correctly.

PSS: Also remember that most of the rotational mass of the wheel is out at the outer edge. The closer the brake is to that mass the easier it is to slow it down. Hence the front brake on the Buell, which is really a cool concept once you get past the UGLY look.

 

[Mod Monkey]

Simply put:

The torque is actually the cross product of the Vectors of radial position and the Force in Nm or Newton Meters. What this means is that the bigger the rotor the less force you are required to apply to the brake. The smaller the rotor the more pressure or force you must apply to the brake compared to the larger rotor to stop.

 

[satariel666]

I, for one, never fully understood the actual advantage of mounting the caliper 'radially', as seems to have become the norm on modern sports bikes in the last couple of years.

Anyone knows the physics?

Oh they're much stiffer and gives more stabile control - but only where they're needed - like in the modern sport bikes.
Simply, the torque arm and its weakneses dosent apper here.
More less.

The advantage of radial brakes on gen1 forks is close to zero - more then that, those brackets will still work as an bias caliper.
The phisics cant be cheaten by this way.

 

[naughtyG]

Hmm,

I understood that the bigger the rotor the better the breaking, indeed the Buell system looks to be best of all.

But still, I can't quite see what the radial mount does to increase braking torque over the usual mount. If a rotor is of a large diameter, and the caliper is mounted traditionally on the fork tube, it's at the same distance from the wheel center is identical, no? So how does the radial mounting help?

 

[satariel666]

Hmm,

I understood that the bigger the rotor the better the breaking, indeed the Buell system looks to be best of all.

But still, I can't quite see what the radial mount does to increase braking torque over the usual mount. If a rotor is of a large diameter, and the caliper is mounted traditionally on the fork tube, it's at the same distance from the wheel center is identical, no? So how does the radial mounting help?

Here ya go G:

http://www.motorcycle.com/how-to/radialmount-calipers-3414.html

http://www.carbibles.com/brake_bible.html

 

[naughtyG]

Great read, Przemek.

Thank you!

And here's the punch line:

This design is a trickle-down technology from superbike racing where a radial caliper mount allows the racing teams to use different diameters of brake rotor by simply adding spacers between the caliper and the mounting bracket.

Read more: http://www.carbibles.com/brake_bible.html#ixzz0uAKF3ZWx
​

 

[PATMAX]

So what Mod monkey is saying but didn't say is we should all ditch what we currently are running and retro fit now defunct Buell wheels with rotors on the rims for the ultimate in brake technology. Shut pretty soon we will be all running Shimano rim pinching brakes and do away with rotors all together. Don't laugh, it could happen!

 

[PATMAX]

So what Mod monkey is saying but didn't say is we should all ditch what we currently are running and retro fit now defunct Buell wheels with rotors on the rims for the ultimate in brake technology. Shoot, pretty soon we will be all running Shimano rim pinching brakes and do away with rotors all together. Don't laugh, it could happen!

 

[satariel666]

Great read, Przemek.

Thank you!

And here's the punch line:

This design is a trickle-down technology from superbike racing where a radial caliper mount allows the racing teams to use different diameters of brake rotor by simply adding spacers between the caliper and the mounting bracket.

Read more: http://www.carbibles.com/brake_bible.html#ixzz0uAKF3ZWx
​

NP.

Digging all the theory about radial brakes some terms "they are not braking better" could be found all around.
Thats not a lie but thats also not completly tru.
Of course braking distanse is similar in both types but whos testing those bikes and write the articles?
Profesional riders on closed tracks mostly.

Radial gives much more stabile control, easier to pressure exactly as much brake force you need at the moment. No suprises on the road I guess.

Somethimes even a very experienced rider cant win with brakes gremilins so I must say that, as far is easier to oparate then it must be better overall.

 

[Mod Monkey]

So what Mod monkey is saying but didn't say is we should all ditch what we currently are running and retro fit now defunct Buell wheels with rotors on the rims for the ultimate in brake technology. Shoot, pretty soon we will be all running Shimano rim pinching brakes and do away with rotors all together. Don't laugh, it could happen!

Now, now, I didn't say that you should retrofit to the Buell brake, just explaining the physics of braking. Personally I actually thought that these conversion brackets, while a cool looking mod, are probably a waste of time unless you go with bigger rotors too. Of course as the official MMRB rep for this site I can tell you that your Monkey would be more than happy should you spend the thousands of dollars on this "upgrade", but we feel that there are better places to spend it that are much more pleasing to us......

 

[PATMAX]

I actually prefer the look of the Buell set up. If someone else would pre engineer it, I'd run that set up. That being said, I laugh in the face of the Momonkey and will keepy existing R1 set up.

 

[Mod Monkey]

I actually prefer the look of the Buell set up. If someone else would pre engineer it, I'd run that set up. That being said, I laugh in the face of the Momonkey and will keepy existing R1 set up.

Hoohooohooohoo, back at ya buddy:biglaugh: Have seen your bike(s) and know that we have a STRONG presence in your home. No worries though as you are doing good work, makes us very happy:eusa_dance:

 

[PATMAX]

It pisses me off to no end when the ModMonkey is right and I have no retort. At least I have only been subject to his Wiley ways since 86 and not 85. Take that MM!

 

[Ika-kun]

Being a convert of axially mounted calipers to radial mounted, I have to say this:

Although it can be argued that braking performance and feel increases are marginal, the best, most modern calipers are radial. It's much cheaper and easier these days to get a really good, light weight, and powerful radial caliper from another modern sportbike. Monoblock Tokicos for $50? It doesn't get much better than that. Ultimate best bang for the buck. My $0.02.

 

[one2dmax]

except the large cost of the adapters! Our adapters are inexpensive and the braking power will far exceed the tires ability to grip. Until you come up with better traction (then even a radial can provide for our heavy bikes) there really isn't a need to go any other way.