Running Really Rough All of the Sudden

[Patrick78]

Ok so many of you may have read my post from this morning regarding my great ride yesterday. Well, I just finished changing the engine oil and the rear end gear oil. Then I went to start the bike and it was very difficult to get started. The choke wasn't working as it normally does. The more choke I gave it the engine would just die. So I had to get it started without the choke and then wait until it was warmed up. While it was running rough there was some smoke coming out of the exhaust.
So anyway, once it warmed up, the idle was still a little lower then its been before, but I drove it around the block. It seemed to be running ok, but the oil pressure gauge was making this terrible friggin noise when it got to about 60psi. What the hell is that about? It never made a sound before. Now I did disconnect the cable and remove the slug that screws into the side of the engine block because as I mentioned in my post earlier this morning I saw some oil leaking from there yesterday and when I checked it this morning I could turn it by hand. So it obviously loosened itself. But it cleaned it all and then put it back together and tightened everything down and now there's a terrible noise coming out of the gauge itself. Is it possible that air got in the line? Is there a way to bleed the air out? I just can't understand why the bike would run perfectly yesterday and then be a mess this morning.

I'm sure this post sounds like its all over the place, but an advice you can give would be greatlly appreciated and if you need me to explain anything just ask me what you want to know.

 

[dannymax]

Ok so many of you may have read my post from this morning regarding my great ride yesterday. Well, I just finished changing the engine oil and the rear end gear oil. Then I went to start the bike and it was very difficult to get started. The choke wasn't working as it normally does. The more choke I gave it the engine would just die. So I had to get it started without the choke and then wait until it was warmed up. While it was running rough there was some smoke coming out of the exhaust.
So anyway, once it warmed up, the idle was still a little lower then its been before, but I drove it around the block. It seemed to be running ok, but the oil pressure gauge was making this terrible friggin noise when it got to about 60psi. What the hell is that about? It never made a sound before. Now I did disconnect the cable and remove the slug that screws into the side of the engine block because as I mentioned in my post earlier this morning I saw some oil leaking from there yesterday and when I checked it this morning I could turn it by hand. So it obviously loosened itself. But it cleaned it all and then put it back together and tightened everything down and now there's a terrible noise coming out of the gauge itself. Is it possible that air got in the line? Is there a way to bleed the air out? I just can't understand why the bike would run perfectly yesterday and then be a mess this morning.

I'm sure this post sounds like its all over the place, but an advice you can give would be greatlly appreciated and if you need me to explain anything just ask me what you want to know.

Think I'd start with the shotgun before going any deeper into this issue, Patrick. Sometimes these weird running problems that come out of the blue are caused by crud in the carbs. http://vmax.lvlhead.com/tips/shotgun.htm
Does your O/P gauge have a fiber washer? These seem to compress and leak not very long after installation....there is a crush washer made by Subaru that fits fairly well which will stop the oil leak. Garrett has the part # if you're interested.

 

[Patrick78]

dannymax,

The O/P does have the fiber washer, however it wasn't just leaking at the washer, the whole assembly came loose and I could turn it with my hand. So i took it all apart, cleaned it up and then reassembled it and made sure it was tight.

I've read through the shotgun cleaning before and I could do that however, that does not explain the really low clicking noise coming out of the O/P gauge when it reaches 60psi.

 

[dannymax]

dannymax,

The O/P does have the fiber washer, however it wasn't just leaking at the washer, the whole assembly came loose and I could turn it with my hand. So i took it all apart, cleaned it up and then reassembled it and made sure it was tight.

I've read through the shotgun cleaning before and I could do that however, that does not explain the really low clicking noise coming out of the O/P gauge when it reaches 60psi.

No it doesn't Patrick, I intentionally avoided that because I don't have the foggiest idea of what it might be! Altho I doubt it's an air trap deal, that just doesn't seem to be a problem with those gauges.

Is it a COO gauge? If so, Tom has prolly run across it before and could shed some light....sorry.

 

[Patrick78]

I don't know what brand the gauge is as it was installed when I got the bike.

I did go back and fire the bike up just a few minutes ago and funny thing is that it started up with the choke engaged just like normal. I let it run for a little bit and then I shut the choke off and the bike died immediately. Same as if I had just turned the key off.
So then I fire it back up and it has the same shitty sound and rough idle that it had earlier. So I pulled the air box off to get a closer look to see if there was anything easily noticable. What I did notice is that with the air box off you could hear the carbs better. When I give the bike more choke the rpm raises just a little bit and then without moving the choke again it drops back down and is rough. I also notice that the carb closest to the clutch lever makes a loud hissing noise when I give the bike more choke and none of the other carbs do this. When I rev the motor there's a mist that that shoots up from where the slides open up.

So what does that sound like to everyone? Something specific or just do the shotgun cleaning and see how what happens after that?

 

[dannymax]

I don't know what brand the gauge is as it was installed when I got the bike.

I did go back and fire the bike up just a few minutes ago and funny thing is that it started up with the choke engaged just like normal. I let it run for a little bit and then I shut the choke off and the bike died immediately. Same as if I had just turned the key off.
So then I fire it back up and it has the same shitty sound and rough idle that it had earlier. So I pulled the air box off to get a closer look to see if there was anything easily noticable. What I did notice is that with the air box off you could hear the carbs better. When I give the bike more choke the rpm raises just a little bit and then without moving the choke again it drops back down and is rough. I also notice that the carb closest to the clutch lever makes a loud hissing noise when I give the bike more choke and none of the other carbs do this. When I rev the motor there's a mist that that shoots up from where the slides open up.

So what does that sound like to everyone? Something specific or just do the shotgun cleaning and see how what happens after that?

Think it's a good starting point Patrick.....Peashooter too as that gets to a different part of the carb.

 

[radar-4460]

make sure none off your plugs fouled like the one nearest the clutch lever.

 

[Patrick78]

I am going to pull the plugs tomorrow and take a look at them. I didn't realize that the peashooter was a different part of the carb. I thought it was a shorter version of the shotgun.
I don't have a compressor to use for blowing air through the air ports in the carb, is there anything else I can use instead?

 

[gamorg02]

i can do better than a part number i can send you one. still have a half dozen or so.

 

[Patrick78]

gamorg02
That would be awesome. Should I PM you my info?

 

[gamorg02]

yes sir.

 

[Redbone]

Also, make sure the crankcase breather hose and the 2 dual hoses running off the carbs up to the outside of the airbox are not pinched/ blocked or disconnected as that can cause issues as well. At the '09 Spring Icebreaker one of the guys was having a issue and Tyler/ Damon and others determined that one of the dual lines was pinched and blocking air flow.

 

[Patrick78]

I'm glad you mentioned the breather hoses because I forgot to ask this question yesterday. when you take the air box out there is what I think is the crankcase breather hose at the back of the box. HOW THE HELL do you get that back on? Once you slide the box in place you can't see anything from above and the space to see and/or get your hand in there is minimal at best. Anybody have a technique for this?

 

[Rhoy Carter]

Move the coolant overflow bottle to one side and there is more room plus you can see a little better

 

[Redbone]

+1 on moving the coolant bottle and that it still a tight space to work in. I used long reach pliers to hold/ aim the hose while refitting the airbox. Also used them to put clamp back in place.

 

[Patrick78]

Once the shotgun process is done how hard is it supposed to be to get the bike started? I know I drained all the fuel out of the carbs, does it just take some time to fill back up? Can't get it to fire up and stay running.

 

[Patrick78]

Ok well I couldn't get the bike to run at all. I just finished the shotgun procedure and changing the spark plugs and the bike just won't hold an idle for more then a few seconds. Its not warm enough to start with no choke, but if I give it like a tiny fraction of choke it will fire up, have a terrible shitty idel at like 700rpm and eventually die. Any more idle then that and it won't do anything. Basically the same problem that I had yesterday with the rough idle and issue starting with choke, except yesterday at it would run.
I just don't understand how I can ride the bike ALL DAY on friday, park it that night and then it never runs again! Is it just me or does that sound like a seriously fucked up situation? Needless to say I'm extremely frustrated.

 

[mattness]

sounds like my old magna when my battery was damaged from the regulator frying. it sounds like theres a lot going on here though

 

[Patrick78]

Ok so after letting it sit since this afternoon before putting the cover back on I thought I'd give it another try to get it started. I tried several times each time moving the choke a tiny bit at a time and I finally got it to start and stay running. It was a pretty rough idle but since it was running I just left it alone and let it warm up. The idle started dropping a little bit without touching the choke so I adjusted the idle screw a little and as it got warm to shut the choke and set the idle at 1000rpm. The idle seemed to smooth out, but I could have sworn that it sounded like there was a different tone coming out of each of the mufflers.
I did take the bike out for a short ride. Bringing 2nd and 3rd gear up into the V-Boost range and didn't feel any drop in power. The bike seems to be running as it was before while riding. Strong in the low range and kinda flat in the middle and then a rush between 6k and 7k rpm.
I feel like the carbs should be sync'd up, but I don't have the meter for this. Does anyone know where I can get one or does someone have one that they lend out? I know a few sites I've gone to for other vehicles that have done this.

 

[dannymax]

Ok so after letting it sit since this afternoon before putting the cover back on I thought I'd give it another try to get it started. I tried several times each time moving the choke a tiny bit at a time and I finally got it to start and stay running. It was a pretty rough idle but since it was running I just left it alone and let it warm up. The idle started dropping a little bit without touching the choke so I adjusted the idle screw a little and as it got warm to shut the choke and set the idle at 1000rpm. The idle seemed to smooth out, but I could have sworn that it sounded like there was a different tone coming out of each of the mufflers.
I did take the bike out for a short ride. Bringing 2nd and 3rd gear up into the V-Boost range and didn't feel any drop in power. The bike seems to be running as it was before while riding. Strong in the low range and kinda flat in the middle and then a rush between 6k and 7k rpm.
I feel like the carbs should be sync'd up, but I don't have the meter for this. Does anyone know where I can get one or does someone have one that they lend out? I know a few sites I've gone to for other vehicles that have done this.

Sounds like some dirt in the carbs was/is giving you problems. How did the fuel look that drained from the bowls, any rust or other foreign crap? BG44K is a nice fuel system treatment....I run 1/3 can in a tankfull and do it 3 times.

Regular use of Seafoam works well also, oz. or two per tankfull.

I agree on the sync....could make all the difference, Morgan Carbtune is a popular sync tool, here's the link. http://www.carbtune.com/

There's currently one on eBay also.