Snowmobiles???

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bud7680

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:ummm:Looking for a good sled to have in Colorado. Really not sure which makes and models are good all around/mtn. type sleds. Would like to stay as close to the 2000.00-2500.00 as I can .
So,
MAKE:
MODEL:
YEAR:
CC:
Looking forward to your advice !:confused2:

Thanks,
Bud
 
Can't go wrong with a Yamaha 700 triple. Fast and reliable motors. Not surprisingly, pretty much any Yamaha engine is rock-solid, I don't know they've ever built a "bad" sled motor.

That said, Yamaha's suspensions were years behind the times for quite a while. Only in the last couple years have they "gotten with the program" so to speak. And if $2500 is your budget you won't even begin to find one new enough.


$2500 is tough. It's not really enough to get any of the "new" rider-forward sleds, like the REV chassis or newer F-series (Yamaha was kind of behind on this too). For mountain riding an older skidoo renegade is a decent choice, look for the 583 or 670 motors. The non-"HO" 600 motors were kind of crappy...IME they were slower than the 583 they replaced.

I could regale you for days about reasons to avoid polaris at all costs. In a nutshell, they're cheaply built, quality is very spotty, they break down a lot, and they usually under-perform for their class. They're also usually a pain in the ass to work on, which is a considerable issue since you have to work on them constantly.

The laydown Cat F-series motors are strong for their class, but due to the design they're tough to work on. Doubt you'd find one in your budget either.


So my suggestion would be
Skidoo Renegade/Summit, with either the 583 or 670 motor. Something from 1996-2002
Yamaha Mountain Max, similar years.

If you'll be riding the steep n deep, invest in a set of Slydog PowderHound skis and a nice 1.5"+ paddle track. Skip the studs, they'll cause nothing but problems, and do zilch in powder anyway.
 
I love my vmax, it puts the same smile on my face that my bike does.. It is fairly comfortable and ok on the trails, but it eats the fuel like no other..

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what about the skidoo mxz800? Seems to be quite a few around!!


Good machine, but for mountain/deep powder riding. You need a long track with 1.5" paddles - or a really good shovel, tow rope and friend with a good sled:rofl_200:

As far as what is the best sled/make - I would say the one in the best overall condition that you can find in your price range. Engines to stay away from are the older Artic Cat 700 twins, Polaris monoblock 600 triples, Skidoo 521 twin and 600 triple - alot of reliability issues with these engines.


Mike
 
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The only triples worth considering were made by Yamaha. All other makes tended to have reliability issues. The Yamaha 600/700 triple were great.

That VMAX4 was the only 4-cylinder 2-stroke sled ever made....kind of cool. But as you noted they vacuumed up gas like no tomorrow and had typical lame-ass Yamaha set-up from the factory. Mushy clutching and soggy suspension. They were quoted at 150hp stock though and I've heard it's fairly easy to get them in the 170-180 range. That goes for pretty much any of the Yamaha sleds. A clutch kit and suspension swap does absolute wonders for them.

I'm picking up a 2005 Cat F5 tomorrow that I found on craigslist for $1900. Super clean and ready to go, the only downside is the miles are on the high side (5200). Even still, that's a $3000 sled all day long so needless to say I jumped on it. Guy said it'd been up all summer and no bites.

A bit of research turned up that the 04-06 F5's were the best. The 03's (first year) had some issues with the ECU and exhaust valves, and in 2007 Cat neutered the motor from 105hp to 80. All Cat 500's since have been the "tamer" 80hp version. Apparently the 04-05-06 F5's are pretty "beloved" sleds and tend to fetch higher than expected prices.

So if you keep your eyes open you might be able to find a F-series within your budget. The 105hp F5's easily keep up with 600s (the Doo 600HO is 105hp) with less weight and are easier on gas. Probably your only bet for a "rider forward" chassis in the sub-$2500 range. Cheapest I ever see REVs go for is in the low $3k range, and any of the new platform Yamaha's are pushing $6k.
 
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So, maybe some one could provide a list in order of desirability of sleds 1-?, like which yamaha models, arctic cat models, ski-doo models. I really dont want polaris. What would you buy?

Thanks RAWARRIOR for all your help you seem to have some pretty good advice and btw great find on the F5. Can you find a deal like that for me?lol:clapping:
Vmax and Mtn. max , same or different?

Can I change tracks to a 1.5 or 2" paddles if I find one with a studded track? or "pita"

Why do some sleds sit really high in the back and others look flat? Suspension or just newer Technology?
 
There is no such thing as a "good" snowmobile. (at least if it says Polaris on the cowl).

I had an old Indy about 12 years ago, and it was a pathetic, poorly designed POS...:bang head: Soured me for life on snowmobiles, and snowmobiling. Never again!
 
Such a list of "desirability" is kind of tough, since the "perfect" sled for any one person depends on a lot of things.
-Riding style(laid back tourer, aggressive trail, ditch banger)
-Riding terrain (groomed trail, ungroomed/break trail, some trail some off, boondocking, mountain/"steep n deep")
-Budget
and the list goes on and on.

Here's my "top 5" best sleds out there at the moment, based on "bang for buck".
1. Skidoo REV 600sdi (semi direct injection). Awesome rev chassis, bulletproof motor that's powerful and easier on gas. Expect to pay between $3500-$6000.
2. Cat F7. Wicked powerful motor, smokes a lot of 800's, F chassis is a close second to the REV, some argue it's better. $3500-$6000 or so.
3. Yamaha FX Nytro. The latest gen of the Nytros are much lighter, the 3-cylinder engine is probably the best on the snow, and Yamaha's finally got suspensions dialed in. $12k (new), to maybe a low of around $8k used.
4. Cat SnoPro 500. Rode one last year, it's a real fun sled. Racer replica so it loves to fly and the suspension rocks. Power is adequate, so long as you never plan to do much more than 70 or so. Not sure on prices of these
5. Skidoo REVXP with the 600 E-TEC. Talk about a smooooooth operator. Motor feels like it's electric. X-package handling is amazingly responsive. The early XP(08-09) chassis had a lot of durability issues, but the newest ones are doing better. Since they're quite new, prices are high.

You'll notice those are all oriented out of the box as trail sleds, with short tracks. It's possible to stretch pretty much any sled, but at considerable expense. Trail sleds are often designed with a set amount of clearance inside the tunnel, so getting a taller paddle track is not always possible, at least not easily. (Sno-x sleds are usually designed for a 2" paddle, as are mountain specific sleds).

The V-max was the trail sled (and the v-max 4 the lake monster). The Mountain Max was designed for, you guessed it, mountain riding. It had a longer/deeper track, wider skis, and higher handlebars(for stand up riding) with a grab strap. Otherwise I'm fairly certain they shared the same chassis and motors.

My find turned out to actually be the Sabercat 500, not the F5 (Firecat 500). Still a good buy at the price, but it's about 20hp weaker since it's the non power valve motor (80hp vs 100 in the Firecat), so a minor disappointment. Sharp looking sled though.

0822111405.jpg


As I realized from my time with the 145hp Yamaha rocket sled, more power isn't always better. Unless you ride Canada exclusively, the power is more of a burden than benefit 95% of the time. Sure, it's a blast to pin it on a lake, but winding through trails, in fresh pow pow, or steep hills, and it's just too much weight to lug around. Most trail riding is in the 0-50mph range anyway, and you definitely don't need a R1 motor to handle that. If all I rode was the superhighway-like groomed trails in Canada, an Apex would be the perfect sled since you can make use of it's awesome power. Otherwise....not so much.

Thing is, I now have a little more than half the power, and I'll still get down trails faster just because the sled is a good 150lbs lighter and far more maneuverable.


Heh....just for fun here's my top 5 worst sleds, based on experience.
1. Polaris FST. The FST is the "Four Stroke Turbo", or "Four Stroke Turd". Our school has one of these. It was such a terrible sled, Polaris actually gave it to us. Free. They didn't even want it. It's the generic Weber 750 engine with a little turbo on it, supposedly pushing out 150hp. I say nay, since my N/A 1000cc Warrior (145hp) blows it away like it wasn't even moving. It's one giant ball of turbo lag. The starter clutch has let go three separate times, each time requiring the motor to be pulled. Water pump shit the bed. Probably half of the 8 million sensors have gone bad, each time sticking it in "limp home" mode (which CANNOT be reset without the special polaris computer). Turbo blew the first time it got opened up on a lake. Handling sucks ass. It barely manages to squeeze out 100mph(the Warrior sails up to 115-120 before the FST hits 80). It's even heavier than my Yamaha. Sucks gas down like it's going out of style. Exhaust note sounds like a muffled whoopie cushion. Seriously, it's the closest to a genuine fart I've ever heard from a motor. Polaris likes to use carraige bolts on upside down surfaces, requiring a second person to hold the bolt in place while another puts the nut on. Polaris also likes to use plastic about on par with those throw-away "glad ware" containers for cowlings, with....wait for it....plastic carraige bolts that immediately strip out. They made a METAL bracket that crosses directly over the battery posts with no kidding about 1/4" of clearance. The battery also mounts to the clutch guard (so do half the sleds electronics), so changing the belt takes an hour instead of 30 seconds. The gas tank vent line is routed directly OVER the EXHAUST SIDE of the turbo, wrapped in a bit of tin foil. Our sled caught fire due to this, since if you fill the tank up, oh, I dunno, more than about 90% a bunch of it shoots out the vent line.

2. Polaris Fusion 900. These had a nasty penchant for catching on fire due to Polaris not realizing that exhaust pipes get hot, and a tin foil wrap on a vinyl line does not make it OK to lay fuel lines on the exhaust. They also ate gas like no tomorrow, and barely manage to keep up with 600's of any other make. A F7 will annihilate one...saw it happen.

3. Any old Polaris 440. Polaris' 440 was famously weak and shitty. Rode one and it barely managed to creep up to 60....my skidoo 380 would push 70. Then we were attempting to play around with it in some deep snow, which obviously required it to be pinned constantly. Almost made it up a mild hill and the chaincase went off like a bomb.

4. A 2008 REV-XP. The "new" REV had so many problems it wasn't even funny. They were banned from sno-x racing due to a defect that would cause the throttle to stick wide open, which happened at a race(hence the ban). They had problems with the front shock nuns breaking, the chaincases blowing up, and the tubs cracking from motor torque. Which was surprising since the 2007 REV was one of the best sleds out there and was famously durable.

5. Polaris RUSH. This gets on here because it's probably the most over-hyped and over-rated sled of all time. Woooo, it's got the shock OUTSIDE the suspension. Holy shit honey get the kids. It was billed as the ultimate ditch banger suspension that was supposedly impossible to bottom out. One of my friends got one so I took it for a ride. Suspension was decent, but nothing amazing. I would have put it on-par with a REV from 5 years ago, if not a little worse. I managed to bottom it out three times and wasn't even going that crazy with it. I'm maybe 190 in gear so not a huge fatass either. It's 600 motor was a joke. Weak weak weak, with a positively lethargic bottom end. I got it to 85 and it felt pretty much tapped out. My old '03 REV 600HO would top 100.
 
Ride style would be trails up to open huge meadows up near the Continental Divide. Watching the spindrifts come off the peaks around 13,000ft+/- rompin it hard in the freshie pow-pow.

Havent ridden that much in a long time but kids are grown and ready to play hard with Dad. So, racing and romping in the mountains, slammin drifts and keepin the thumb in it as much possible.

Lots of great advice again Ra Thanks! :clapping:
 
Sounds like you'll be riding lots of "ungroomed" stuff...drifts, open fields, ect. While a short track trail sled can and will get around in powpow, it's like taking a RWD car off roading....you can get around, as long as the conditions aren't too bad and you're careful.

You'll probably want to go with a "crossover" or mountain sled. "Crossovers" are suitably named as a bridge between short track (121 or 128" depending on brand) trail sled and the 150+" mountain sleds. Most crossovers have 136"(such as the Doo Renegade) or 144" tracks(Nytro XTX).

The tradeoff is long/tall tracks are not practical at all for groomed trails. The motors won't cool well, the hyfax/track sliders will wear very quickly, and due to the huge traction from the track, they will turn like tanks on hardpack.

So if you never plan to ride trails, or spend very limited time on them, go with the biggest track you can find. A Renegade with a 136"x1.5 paddle and some wider skis will get around very nicely in powder. Find one with the 600SDI motor and you've got a very solid choice.

Otherwise, the Cat M-series is another good option. Go with at least the 600. The 500 is fun for trails and playing around, but for serious steep n deep it just doesn't have enough beans.

So.....knowing that, my suggestions would be

Skidoo Renegade, 04 or newer. 600SDI motor is a bonus, but the carb 600HO is by no means bad. 800 power-teks had some durability problems. Stick with a 600. I'm not sure if the 500SS (a 600 in disguise, it was like 590cc or something) ever made it way into renegades, but it's only a tiny bit weaker than the 600 any they're usually a lot less money. If you're willing to get a pre-REV ("R" platform) skidoo, you can save a lot of money as well, but the REV platform to me is worth the extra coin. It's so much "easier" to ride, easier to move around on, easier to throw around.

Arctic cat M6 or M7. The 700's seem to fetch a fair bit more money than the 600's, just because the Cat 700 has a bit of a cult hit status.

Again, the newer Yamie Nytros are great sleds, but prices for Yamahas are through the roof....you'll never find one in your budget unless it's been tossed off a cliff. The early Yamaha 4-strokes are too heavy for anything more than occasional off-trail riding.

And I could never recommend a Polaris to anybody, for any reason.
 

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Here is another great race that is up here. It's quite the party too.
Picture skiing or snowboarding down a mountain, then picking up a tow rope and getting pulled in the triple digits by a snowmachine.
http://arcticman.com/

The hoodoo mountains kick ass as far as snowmachining goes. Great place, great view.
 

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I've been out on two separate rides, with two brand new(less than 100mi) Polaris sleds, and both had major problems. One jumped a snowbank and on landing(perfectly smooth), an a-arm bent. I got more air off the same jump with my Yamaha and it was fine as always. 10 miles later the entire right suspension collapsed with the upper shock nun breaking off and both a-arms breaking loose, instantly barrel rolling the sled and tossing the guy riding it.

Another time one blew both it's first belt, then the spare within the course of 50 miles. Alignment was wildly off right from the factory.


Quality is just not up to par with the other manufacturers. I'm sure a few Yugo's made it across the country OK as well, but that doesn't mean they were a well built machine.
 

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