Are aftermarket fork braces worth it?

[tonyg-5386]

Hi Guys,

I just bought 2 new Shinko tires for my 96 and was thinking of installing an aftermarket fork brace in the process. Is the stock one on the bike good enough? I don't want to burn a $100 bill if it's not going to do anything. I kind of like the looks of the UFO one. I did search the forums before posting this question but no one definitively stated whether it was worthwhile or not in any of the postings.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yama...0872268QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[rubiconroy]

I couldn't say if there is any improvement, but they sure do look good! If you or anyone else is interested, I have a brand new UFO 93-07 fork brace that I would sell. It is their older design. Thanks!

Jeff

 

[[email protected]]

If you like bling they are. I don't think they make an improvement in handling. I'd save up for frame braces or spend that money on solid mounts and a case of beer

 

[maleko89]

I've tried both and didn't notice any difference. It's more worth it to get frame braces and then solid motor mounts IMO.

 

[tonyg-5386]

Thanks for the fast replies. I will save my money for a better mod now.

 

[RaWarrior]

I talked with Brendan at PCW about this a fair bit and he said pretty much the same thing...the fork braces are nice and bling, but the stock one works just fine.

For frame braces, he said it depends how you ride. If you ride "normally", maybe a little stoplight racing now and then but that's it it won't make a huge amount of difference, you probably wouldn't notice. If you ride "really push it", as in dragging the pegs and lots of time at 100+, they can help cure some of the shaky handling among other things.

Though I tell ya, the new head bearings and lowering blocks made a HUGE improvement all around...bike feels so much more "planted" now. Not that I thought it was bad before(it only got wiggly at high speed), but now it's so much better, the difference is striking. Any speed, any lean angle, it's on rails.

 

[CustomMax]

What's the easiest way to tell if the head bearing mod was done. I told my buddy I wanted to do the head mod and he thinks it was already done how can you tell?

 

[gamorg02]

u mean the furbur fix ed? ryans just talking about putting new bearings in.

 

[maleko89]

If you mean Furbur fix it is recognized by a steel washer in between the grooved nuts. They sit above the top bearing cover.

 

[CustomMax]

Ok thanks, I'll have to look, I think it's ok( haven't had any wobble issues) but don't want to find out at 130mph either. Better safe than.. Well you know

 

[VMAX NV]

Ok thanks, I'll have to look, I think it's ok( haven't had any wobble issues) but don't want to find out at 130mph either. Better safe than.. Well you know

I don't know, my doesn't wobble so I'm not going to do the Furber just yet, just tighten up both nuts like in Sean's video. Also, btw, the Furber suggests putting the metal washer ABOVE both nuts...

A lot of guys have said forget Furber, if it wobbles that bad you need new head bearings...other say it works great.

 

[RaWarrior]

I tried all the tricks to get rid of the wobble on mine, none of them worked. Metal washer, adjusting the bearings, tire pressures, ect. When I got them changed, the bike had about 23k on it, but had the high speed wobble since I got it around 12k.

The real culprit of wobble is bad head bearings. The play in the bearing manifests as a wobble at high speeds, since wind resistance is lifting some weight of the bike up. Normally the weight of the bike keeps the bearings from wiggling in their looseness, but with less weight leaning on them, they will allow the stem to jiggle about just ever so slightly....enough to cause a slight, though disconcerting wobble.

At least for me, it was never a "violent" wobble....it would just start to wiggle a bit, at which point I always just eased off the gas and it would get steady as soon as the speed dropped again. People have noticed that pushing forward on the handlebars appears to stop it....DON'T. You are adding just enough pressure to the bearings to stop the wiggle, until you go a bit faster and the bike's dynamics overpower your added pressure. Then the little wiggle can come back as a tank slapper. Someone here had a nasty story about doing that. The wiggle is the warning sign, the bike telling you to back off before something unpleasant happens. Ignore it and there's a fair chance it'll bite you in the ass.

 

[Rollie]

+ 1 " If it wiggles , back off until you can fix it " unk:

 

[jfeagins]

The real culprit of wobble is bad head bearings. The play in the bearing manifests as a wobble at high speeds, since wind resistance is lifting some weight of the bike up. Normally the weight of the bike keeps the bearings from wiggling in their looseness, but with less weight leaning on them, they will allow the stem to jiggle about just ever so slightly....enough to cause a slight, though disconcerting wobble.

At least for me, it was never a "violent" wobble....it would just start to wiggle a bit, at which point I always just eased off the gas and it would get steady as soon as the speed dropped again. People have noticed that pushing forward on the handlebars appears to stop it....DON'T. You are adding just enough pressure to the bearings to stop the wiggle, until you go a bit faster and the bike's dynamics overpower your added pressure. Then the little wiggle can come back as a tank slapper. Someone here had a nasty story about doing that. The wiggle is the warning sign, the bike telling you to back off before something unpleasant happens. Ignore it and there's a fair chance it'll bite you in the ass.

Oooohhh, the dreaded tank slapper. One of those can sure ruin the day, that's for sure. At the very least, one can sure get the blood pumping.

Ra, your head bearings must have been really, really bad to allow slop at that speed and to allow your front end to wobble like it did.

I knew a lot of guys have had success with new bearings, but I'd never heard it explained in detail quite like this before. :clapping:

For me, and this is just my personal experience on my two 1985's, each and every time I have the smallest inkling of a wobble at high speeds, just changing out the rubber on the back, and making double sure the tire was perfectly balanced, cured it 100%. But I run the biased ply OEM Dunflops with RWL'ing (cause I'm just that way) and they can get a tweeked cord or two after some mileage on them and all the never-ending potholes in my neck of the woods. At least for me, the back tire has always been the answer. But now, if I ever run into worse problems than new rear rubber can cure, I'll know right where to look for the possibility of another problem.

Thanks for explaining why head bearings can allow wobble. :eusa_dance:

 

[RaWarrior]

I mean they were "worn" but not "horrible"....there were some noticeable scuffs/grooves on the race where the rollers tended to sit. I've seen pictures on here of much worse. I asked if this was a "normal maintenance" item, something that should be replaced on somewhat of a schedule. Brendan said probably 20-25k miles if you wanted to be pro-active, but like me, most people only replace them when they start to be a problem.

Apparently PCW deals with customers complaining of wobbles pretty often, to which they suggest their "complete control" kit, which is new bearings, Progressive springs, 1" blocks, and an overall fork r/r (new seals and oil for me). The "vast majority" of the time this cured wiggles of any kind...high speed, low speed, deceleration, bumps/highway grooves, ect.

When they get loose, the top end is the first place it will manifest. For someone who doesn't really push it too hard in corners and seldom if ever tops 100, they may never notice any problems.

The wheel's rotational inertia(which at 100+mph is HUGE) is what keeps the wobble in check. Ever do that high school physics experiment with a bicycle wheel on handles? It would take a surprising amount of strength to move it about even with a modest spin. Your vmax wheel weighs probably 20 fold as much and is spinning 10 fold faster. It has a tremendous desire to stay in a perfectly straight line and resist quick changes of direction. The wobble is kept in check, at least temporairly, by the wheel's inertia. The wheel doesn't want to wobble. So even with 700lbs of bike/rider on the end of a 3ft lever aka the fork wiggling about, the rotational inertial quells the oscillations. The bearings are the critical link to allow that inertia to "hold" the bike steady at any speed. When that link gets play it it, the wheel is only "holding" the fork and handlebars, as normal imbalances such as vibration, wind, ect that would normally be overpowered by the inertia are allowed to act in the small amount of play, since even a thou or two of play in the bearing is magnified by the length of the bike stemming from it, it can turn into an inch or so of oscillation. The rear wheel fights this as well through the swingarm link. Eventually, if not quelled, the oscillation's inertia(700lbs wavering back and forth) will propagate on each wave, gaining force. Once it overpowers the wheel's inertia, you get a tank slapper where the handlebars oscillate between the two stops violently. People have instantly had their wrists broken by the force wrenching the handlebars...you're dealing with some pretty extreme amounts of energy. When it gets out of equilibrium, it wants to restore it as quickly as possible. If that new equilibrium is lying motionless on the side of the road with the rider tossed into the ditch, that's what it will be.

Without rotational inertial, two wheeled transport just wouldn't work. It's why riding a motorcycle very slowly is difficult...you have to do the balancing, instead of the wheels because they're not spinning fast enough to generate enough inertia to hold the bike up.

 

[4gasem]

I've tried both and didn't notice any difference. It's more worth it to get frame braces and then solid motor mounts IMO.

Agreed! I have one only because I had to drop my fender when I went radials. Stock looks like crap IMO when you drop the fender.

I feel ZERO difference. The stock one's pretty darn good IMO and looks good too.

Check out some frame braces... www.Holeshot.com has some good ones. Made in the USA too.

I bought a washer on eBay for next to nothing and used it on my bike. On another Vmax I just removed the rubber between the nuts, set the torque where it needed to be, set the rubber on top of the top nut, and reassembled. He loves it and says it doesn't shake anymore.

Chris

 

[zippo6]

I mean they were "worn" but not "horrible"....there were some noticeable scuffs/grooves on the race where the rollers tended to sit. I've seen pictures on here of much worse. I asked if this was a "normal maintenance" item, something that should be replaced on somewhat of a schedule. Brendan said probably 20-25k miles if you wanted to be pro-active, but like me, most people only replace them when they start to be a problem.

Apparently PCW deals with customers complaining of wobbles pretty often, to which they suggest their "complete control" kit, which is new bearings, Progressive springs, 1" blocks, and an overall fork r/r (new seals and oil for me). The "vast majority" of the time this cured wiggles of any kind...high speed, low speed, deceleration, bumps/highway grooves, ect.

When they get loose, the top end is the first place it will manifest. For someone who doesn't really push it too hard in corners and seldom if ever tops 100, they may never notice any problems.

The wheel's rotational inertia(which at 100+mph is HUGE) is what keeps the wobble in check. Ever do that high school physics experiment with a bicycle wheel on handles? It would take a surprising amount of strength to move it about even with a modest spin. Your vmax wheel weighs probably 20 fold as much and is spinning 10 fold faster. It has a tremendous desire to stay in a perfectly straight line and resist quick changes of direction. The wobble is kept in check, at least temporairly, by the wheel's inertia. The wheel doesn't want to wobble. So even with 700lbs of bike/rider on the end of a 3ft lever aka the fork wiggling about, the rotational inertial quells the oscillations. The bearings are the critical link to allow that inertia to "hold" the bike steady at any speed. When that link gets play it it, the wheel is only "holding" the fork and handlebars, as normal imbalances such as vibration, wind, ect that would normally be overpowered by the inertia are allowed to act in the small amount of play, since even a thou or two of play in the bearing is magnified by the length of the bike stemming from it, it can turn into an inch or so of oscillation. The rear wheel fights this as well through the swingarm link. Eventually, if not quelled, the oscillation's inertia(700lbs wavering back and forth) will propagate on each wave, gaining force. Once it overpowers the wheel's inertia, you get a tank slapper where the handlebars oscillate between the two stops violently. People have instantly had their wrists broken by the force wrenching the handlebars...you're dealing with some pretty extreme amounts of energy. When it gets out of equilibrium, it wants to restore it as quickly as possible. If that new equilibrium is lying motionless on the side of the road with the rider tossed into the ditch, that's what it will be.

Without rotational inertial, two wheeled transport just wouldn't work. It's why riding a motorcycle very slowly is difficult...you have to do the balancing, instead of the wheels because they're not spinning fast enough to generate enough inertia to hold the bike up.

Wow.... I need a beer :worthy:

 

[old timer]

As an afterthought on the UFO brace...you have to remove the front wheel to install it...

 

[4gasem]

As an afterthought on the UFO brace...you have to remove the front wheel to install it...

I'm pretty sure all '93+ are that way.

 

[VMAX NV]

Well, I don't know if it'll do any good, but it's pretty. Stainless Steel, weighs about 3 pounds. I think it looks better than the stock one.