Something has always concerned me with the geometry...

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by MAXMS, Jun 3, 2019.

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  1. Jun 9, 2019 #21

    MAXMS

    MAXMS

    MAXMS

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    I'm taking it in to Suter's Speed Shop in Madison next month to have him look at it. I want to paint the swing arm black anyway. Maybe replace the swing arm bearings too. Thank you guys for the thoughts. Definitely the best site out there for the Vmax fanatics.
     
  2. Jun 10, 2019 #22

    sdt354

    sdt354

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    You can run an adjuster on each side, but I'd make sure everything is
    right before doing that.Be safe.
     
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  3. Jun 20, 2019 at 12:04 PM #23

    MAXMS

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  4. Jun 20, 2019 at 4:38 PM #24

    prosnap

    prosnap

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    It looks like the swing arm is off. I would put it up on the center stand and pull off the right shock. If the shock feels like it’s on a bind go one step further after the shock is removed and see if there is any side to side play in the rear end bu pulling on the tire back and forth.
     
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  5. Jun 21, 2019 at 12:49 AM #25

    Julian Tomkins

    Julian Tomkins

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    it looks to me like both the rear shocks are leaning to the right, the wheel shouldn't be that much out of line, the swingarm alignment must be out, has the swingarm ever been changed
     
  6. Jun 21, 2019 at 10:45 PM #26

    jdeitz1979

    jdeitz1979

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    I’m betting that’s what it is. I got two right side adjusters in my swing arm. Helps take a little offset out so it doesn’t look soo bad on my busa swap. Maybe MAXMS, should pop the left swing arm cover off n see what’s there
     
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  7. Jun 24, 2019 at 12:04 PM #27

    MAXMS

    MAXMS

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    Thanks for the reply, I am the third owner and I do believe the swing arm or the rear has been removed because the on the left side, the Vmax has that plastic ring between the hub and the rim. Well mine is aluminum. My bike has been customized by the first owner. He had the two neck pieces, the instrument cowl and the rear plastic taillight assembly as well as that plastic ring removed and replaced with a casted aluminum. Somewhat interesting. So, I do know that the rear wheel has been removed to get to that ring. My solution to this is I am taking it to a good friend of mine (Suter's Speed Shop) in Madison for him to look at it. At the same time, I want him to remove the swing arm so I can have it painted black. The kicker in all of this is drives perfect, no shakes, no wobbles and even at very high speeds. It's just always bothered me from a geometry standpoint. Thank you!
     
  8. Jun 24, 2019 at 12:30 PM #28

    Julian Tomkins

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    great, hope you get is sorted :)
     
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  9. Jun 25, 2019 at 2:33 PM #29

    Edward

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    Maybe he adapted it to allow for a different dimension in the "casting." I like your solution. A professional mechanic may have a spare Housing Cover 1FK-46154-00-00 to compare to the replacement. I'm guessing that some, ill considered, "adjustment" was made to allow for installation of the replacement.

    No, there might not be any shakes or wobbles. Motorcycles, being two wheeled vehicles, are automatically aligned by the operator. You, keep the head turned slightly to the left in compensation in order to keep the motorcycle moving on a straight ahead line. Notice this the next time you are riding.

    The problem is that your wheels aren't in the same plane. The rear tire doesn't follow directly in the path of the front tire. This means that a right turn will have a completely different geometry from that of a left hand turn. You feel this the most when cornering hard at LOW speed.

    In your case, a left turn will require significantly less right hand contersteer than the left hand contersteer for a right hand turn. The rear wheel is already on the inside radius of the turn. Have you noticed that you corner too hard in a left hand turn? ...that your motorcycle wants to to "lay over" in a left hand turn? ... that it takes longer to "settle in" to a right hand turn?

    A right hand turn will feel delayed. You countersteer left but nothing happens until the rear wheel has passed to the inside (rightmost) radius of the turn; meanwhile, you're running wide. You have to turn the head much further (with respect to the motorcycle) than normal since it's already pushed to the left in order to go straight.

    Undoubtedly, you have developed a "feel: for this peculiarity in your motorcycle and may not even notice it at all. It's like, when you used to swap bicycles with your friend and his pedals always seemed to have this strange motion as you pedaled them around. That's why I have a rule never to swap motorcycles with my friends. If I were to get on your bike I would notice this problem immediately. You would probably notice some peculiarity in mine.

    I have neglected to look at your "chicken strips" :) to try and gauge how hard you manhandle this bike. If you always ride on the center of the tires, you may not notice any problem, even with low speed handling.

    But here's a test. Chose an average width road and make a complete "U" turn, curb-to-curb, at walking speed without touching either of your feet to the ground. Start all the way to the right and make a "U" turn counterclockwise. Rinse and repeat starting at the left side of the road. Feel the difference now? Left-to-right a little spooky?

    I don't like unexpected things happening when I ride. I want to be "one" with my bike. No thought to control manipulation. "Look left, push left, lean left, go left, accelerate..."

    Man! Please don't ride this motorcycle at 120MPH until you get this problem sorted out!
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019 at 3:22 PM
  10. Jun 26, 2019 at 5:34 AM #30

    MaxMidnight

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    It's quite normal for shaft driven bikes to have the rear wheel offset to one side. As the offset isn't that great any difference if turning effort from side to side will not be noticed by most of us mortals and is something we soon get used to.
    The offset on the Max has been well documented and a partial remedy lies in fitting a RH (the adjustable one) swinging arm pivot in place of the LH (fixed one) which will allow you to move the swinging arm assembly over to the right.

    At the moment you seem to be guessing as to where the problem lies.
    I would check that the centre of the front wheel head-stock and centre line of the frame are all in line.
    Use a plumb line and mark the points on the floor.
    Then check to see how far off centre the rear wheel is.
    Finally check to see if the rear mudguard is off centre.
    If it is then drop a plumb line down from the mudguard mounting points and see if they are equidistant from the frame centre line.

    Having done this you will know where the issue lies and establish what your options are.
     
  11. Jun 26, 2019 at 1:01 PM #31

    Edward

    Edward

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    A quick and unscientific check of my rear wheel (with the rear fender) confirms it to be centered.

    Here: https://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/checking-motorcycles-wheel-alignment/ is a "down and dirty" way to quickly check a motorcycle's tracking using florescent tubes. Really ingenious!

    Look at that gorgeous BSA!
     

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