Stock Camshaft Valve Event Specs??

[backfire]

Does anyone know the valve event data of the stock camshafts? I don't just mean the standard duration/lift figures, but the actual valve timing events, pressure angles, lobe ramp velocities, etc. that one would obtain from rolling one on a Cam Doctor?

I'd like to know how the stock camshafts are ground to use as a starting point of grinding something custom for my bike, since I've decided to keep her for a while after all.

Sean maybe?


john

 

[lankeeyankee]

Does anyone know the valve event data of the stock camshafts? I don't just mean the standard duration/lift figures, but the actual valve timing events, pressure angles, lobe ramp velocities, etc. that one would obtain from rolling one on a Cam Doctor?

I'd like to know how the stock camshafts are ground to use as a starting point of grinding something custom for my bike, since I've decided to keep her for a while after all.

Sean maybe?


john

All the specs you are looking for in the VMAX service manual which can be downloaded free at OUTLAWVMAX.COM

 

[backfire]

No.. Those are not all the specs I'm looking for, because as I said before, those common specifications only show lift/duration figures, they do *not* describe the camshaft's valve events, lobe ramp profiles, lobe advance, LSA, pressure angles, etc. etc. etc, or any other very important information needed to properly develop a camshaft for these engines that isn't a compromise. I don't care for some of the grinds that are offered from Web and Megacycle and I'd bet the keys to this shop I can develop something better- at least for me. Thanks for the reply though.

All these bike engine guys around here and *no one* has ever done this- for any VMAX camshaft, stock or otherwise?????

I'm asking all of this, because I've got a stock set of cylinder heads we're porting out here for high performance street use and once we're done, we're going to flow them on our SF-600. Once I have the flow info, I can then develop a camshaft that will compliment the combination, but I need to know a few basic pieces of information first before I can proceed- hence my asking the questions I did.

Anyone? Bueller???


john

 

[one2dmax]

Sorry, never bothered to try and get any of those measurements. You might be able to get that specs from megacycle and then they will custom grind your new cams to whatever you want.

Sean

 

[backfire]

No worries.

We do a *lot* of R&D work with an automotive racing camshaft manufacturer for our racing engines here, so I think I'm going to send them a set of stock cam cores to roll to get the information. I'd really like to see the lobe profile of the stock parts- especially with the idle gallup they have in stock trim.

If anything, I'll post up the information here to help others, as it looks like some of this very technical engine data is missing from this site. Add that and I think this website would be the best Vmax site on the net! unk:

john

 

[maleko89]

Let us know a before/after horsepower/torque figures. What are you tuning the camshafts to? Exhaust pipes, intake, both? How much is it to get custom cams done? For example, if I were to get mine custom tuned to my exhaust?

 

[113s&s]

after market cam companys who been making cams for 50 years or so have all that figured in for peak street and track power they did all the math..anything else would be a big waste of money for the street and dependability

 

[backfire]

I'm going to grind the cams in my bike in 2 different stages- one set designed for stock engine w/ slight bolt-on mods and the other for engines with mild modifications on stock displacement. Since I have 3 sets of cam cores here, I can do a bit of swapping around without much down time, until I get to my final destination.

Here are the mod plans for my bike this Summer w/ cams to match each "stage". I'd guess most folks fall into these catagory "stages", so I'll try to configure them out to what I like and use what others have successfully have done before me- just to keep it simple.

Since bike configurations are nearly endless, there is no possible, pratical way to grind something to fit every application, so I'll focus on what seems to be the "norm", as I don't want to get too radical with this thing. I do want to focus on producing a thick, broad power curve with a lot of curtain area, emphasizing broad torque first, then opening up the exhaust lobe to make the bike pull to redline without laying down at that RPM like it does now. This is why I was asking Shawn Kloker about SCR and DCR with the use of the cams he chose in a past thread. Those two specs are the most important info to have when trying to grind a cam that matches a particular application.

Stage I~
Engine: Stock
Exhaust: Stock or Dale Walker header/exhaust system
Induction: K&N air filter w/ associated stock carb calibration
Ignition: Stock or aftermarket ignition
Fuel: 87-93 octane pump gas

Stage II~
Engine: Ported cylinder heads, higher than stock compression
Exhaust: Dale Walker header/exhaust system
Induction: Same
Ignition: Either/Same
Fuel: 93 octane pump gas


I hope this works and I'm sending the cams out today!


john

 

[backfire]

after market cam companys who been making cams for 50 years or so have all that figured in for peak street and track power they did all the math..anything else would be a big waste of money for the street and dependability

I build racing engines for a living and if I had relied on them producing the cams they "thought" I should have, 1.) My business would have failed years ago and 2.) we wouldn't be making the power we are with what we're working with. I don't care if we're talking lawn mowers or race engines, no one cam fits all applications...period!

Would you like to put a wager on your statement that they parts will make more power than with my grinds??? I have the means to develop, test and validate it all right her in the shop, so there is no "guessing" for anything and no reliance on "seat of the pants" gains either. Care to take me up on it? You name the wager... I'm always up for a challenge!


John

 

[QuarterHorse]

I'm curious to see the numbers you get Backfire. Keep us in the loop!

 

[113s&s]

I build racing engines for a living and if I had relied on them producing the cams they "thought" I should have, 1.) My business would have failed years ago and 2.) we wouldn't be making the power we are with what we're working with. I don't care if we're talking lawn mowers or race engines, no one cam fits all applications...period!

Would you like to put a wager on your statement that they parts will make more power than with my grinds??? I have the means to develop, test and validate it all right her in the shop, so there is no "guessing" for anything and no reliance on "seat of the pants" gains either. Care to take me up on it? You name the wager... I'm always up for a challenge!


John

made the bike for 25 years where you been........if someone makes a living running on the edge at the track willing to spend big money for a 10th sec to make a living...sure ...... 99.9% dont need a hotter cam setup for the street ....making power is one thing .....making a cam for many many years of service thats easy on the motor is another....who care if you get a number on the dyno for one day will the motor ..valves cam still be running strong and smooth in two three five years......wow secret cam specs :rofl_200:

 

[backfire]

made the bike for 25 years where you been........if someone makes a living running on the edge at the track willing to spend big money for a 10th sec to make a living...sure ...... 99.9% dont need a hotter cam setup for the street ....making power is one thing .....making a cam for many many years of service thats easy on the motor is another....who care if you get a number on the dyno for one day will the motor ..valves cam still be running strong and smooth in two three five years......wow secret cam specs :rofl_200:

What useless drivle are you even talking about????? Your run-on sentences are difficult to even understand...

Who the hell is talking about secret cam specs????? I was merely gathering information so I can develop a cam for myself.

Who said I want to produce a cam that will blow the engine up?????

Who the hell says I'm producing cams for anyone else but myself???

Your stupid and grossly inaccurate pointless statements/assumptions are what poisons the internet with useless trash, effectively keeping someone from learning because they have to sift through this type of drivel to get to some useful information.

I could give two shits less about you or anyone else wanting an aftermarket camshaft for their bike, as the questions I was asking we're asked because I was trying to gether information about the engine that someone might have known that I didn't.

As far as where I've been....I've been around since the inception of the bike and had a 1st. Gen model when it was released and now a 2nd. Gen model as well. You point there?????

There will *always* be the stocker group like you that think stock is good and you'd rather be wiping it with a diaper, than upgrading it to go faster. If the entire high performance industry was as closed minded about engine performance as you obviously are, than we would still be riding horses to work and performance technology would never have advanced.

It's ok if you're one of the "waxer" crowd that just likes to watch the tulips go by as you go for ice cream, because the world needs you to go around too. However, don't criticize someone else who thinks differently and wishes to go faster by upgrading his car, boat, bike, moped or whatever.


And just for your reference- the camshaft profiles, engines and vehicles we currently build here are vastly stronger/durable than any stock engine is on it's best day and they make more power doing it, with increased fuel economy to boot. In fact, our products were in a car last August during SpeedWeek at the Bonneville Salt Flats that set a land speed record of 236.664 MPH in their class (BGT- Blown Gas Touring) and our products were also along for a win in a customers car that just won Pinks All Out in Atlanta last week out of 473 cars in attandance.

I think we know what we're doing here....


If you don't have anything constructive (or useful) to add to the conversation, than don't be a part of the problem- be a part of the solution and shut the hell up. You never did take me up on that wager... How about it??


john

 

[2stangs69-91]

made the bike for 25 years where you been........if someone makes a living running on the edge at the track willing to spend big money for a 10th sec to make a living...sure ...... 99.9% dont need a hotter cam setup for the street ....making power is one thing .....making a cam for many many years of service thats easy on the motor is another....who care if you get a number on the dyno for one day will the motor ..valves cam still be running strong and smooth in two three five years......wow secret cam specs :rofl_200:

why do have to be so negative...it seems like there you are in everypost on vmax performance saying how they don't stack up. but when somebody is trying to play with performance you make fun of them?

I also build race engines(for cars) and run custom cam specs in different ones to fill the need. Why should a bike with a 4 stroke engine be any different?

 

[113s&s]

What useless drivle are you even talking about????? Your run-on sentences are difficult to even understand...

Who the hell is talking about secret cam specs????? I was merely gathering information so I can develop a cam for myself.

Who said I want to produce a cam that will blow the engine up?????

Who the hell says I'm producing cams for anyone else but myself???

Your stupid and grossly inaccurate pointless statements/assumptions are what poisons the internet with useless trash, effectively keeping someone from learning because they have to sift through this type of drivel to get to some useful information.

I could give two shits less about you or anyone else wanting an aftermarket camshaft for their bike, as the questions I was asking we're asked because I was trying to gether information about the engine that someone might have known that I didn't.

As far as where I've been....I've been around since the inception of the bike and had a 1st. Gen model when it was released and now a 2nd. Gen model as well. You point there?????

There will *always* be the stocker group like you that think stock is good and you'd rather be wiping it with a diaper, than upgrading it to go faster. If the entire high performance industry was as closed minded about engine performance as you obviously are, than we would still be riding horses to work and performance technology would never have advanced.

It's ok if you're one of the "waxer" crowd that just likes to watch the tulips go by as you go for ice cream, because the world needs you to go around too. However, don't criticize someone else who thinks differently and wishes to go faster by upgrading his car, boat, bike, moped or whatever.


And just for your reference- the camshaft profiles, engines and vehicles we currently build here are vastly stronger/durable than any stock engine is on it's best day and they make more power doing it, with increased fuel economy to boot. In fact, our products were in a car last August during SpeedWeek at the Bonneville Salt Flats that set a land speed record of 236.664 MPH in their class (BGT- Blown Gas Touring) and our products were also along for a win in a customers car that just won Pinks All Out in Atlanta last week out of 473 cars in attandance.

I think we know what we're doing here....


If you don't have anything constructive (or useful) to add to the conversation, than don't be a part of the problem- be a part of the solution and shut the hell up. You never did take me up on that wager... How about it??


john

good luck making your cam john,,,, let me know how it works out.......im all for performance... i just have a good nose for bullshit.....really like to see how this cam will stack up against a after market cam.........what would the wager be you can make a cam ? or your cam and motor package will out produce all others ?.....

 

[backfire]

:doh:

 

[richwrench]

I think there's a lot of smoke & mirrors in the *mid-west*...

 

[maleko89]

I think there's a lot of smoke & mirrors in the *mid-west*...

You're right about that. We smoke our tires and we use mirrors to comb our hair.

 

[richwrench]

ok - maybe not ALL of the mid-west...

 

[113s&s]

why do have to be so negative...it seems like there you are in everypost on vmax performance saying how they don't stack up. but when somebody is trying to play with performance you make fun of them?

I also build race engines(for cars) and run custom cam specs in different ones to fill the need. Why should a bike with a 4 stroke engine be any different?

you motor builders stick together :biglaugh: justing joking 2strange...you really think there will be a difference in a good after market cam thats tryed and proven....to a cam that the numbers are moved around a little ........,,,there are guys here who put high hp packages together, and there proof is in there work........saying im going to do this and that means nothing to me or most people

 

[maleko89]

ok - maybe not ALL of the mid-west...

I'm crushed, you think I'm a troll?