Ed that is some scary shit. My wife would've said the same thing. I hope it all works out for you. My wife loves riding but that would scare the shit out of her. Glad your ok bud !!!!!
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CustomMax
Well-Known Member
Thanks Mark, I put alot of work Into this but I don't wanna have to think its the last time my kids are gonna see me every time I get on it. But I'm confident it can be safe again. Now I just need to convince her of that.
Traumahawk
Well-Known Member
Glad that your ok, and that she's ok. I can understand her reaction. My GF, even though she had a Vmax, every time I go out, she worries, and tells me to be safe.
Shit happens on cars and bikes. Anytime you have custom parts you have more risk of something failing. Custom parts rarely have all the R&D testing that your production parts have. Of course most items we sell I have tested on my own personal stuff. Still, there are many factors that can't be tested the same.
I've had rear wheels lock up and though it can be a nerve racking experience when you're not expecting it I haven't felt like it was going to be my last ride. Of course each person and each experience is different. The rear tire lockup generally lets you slide to a stop. The front however is a completely different story!
I think my worst failure I've had that had me a bit nervous was a front tire coming off the rim while in a long gradual curve (doing about 65-70mph). Had the fork leg not been there it would have just shot all the way off. Once I recovered from the initial trajectory change (and shorts cleaning) I could actually see the front tire walking off and on the rim as I leaned the bike one direction or the other. So, in that situation I leaned until I got the tire back on the wheel then SPED UP to use centrifugal force to hold it back on the wheel until I could get where I could slow down in a more controlled manner. I rode that way for about 5 miles to get to a nearby shop where I could get air back in the tire (found out later it had a slow leak and when I picked up the bike they had neglected to tell me about it or air the tire up).
I have also had a trans failure that locked up the rear wheel (more then once). BOTH times were under hard acceleration and Both times it was at the shift point when the case cracked and shredded the trans locking up the drivetrain. I think this was easier to deal with since I was in a more alert state then just cruising along like you were.
I think the only other time i've had the rear wheel lock up was only old seca turbo. Broken rear diff (also beating on it) caused that one. I've had a number of rear flat tires which aren't all that bad and thankfully only the one front issue which WAS bad.
Sean
I've had rear wheels lock up and though it can be a nerve racking experience when you're not expecting it I haven't felt like it was going to be my last ride. Of course each person and each experience is different. The rear tire lockup generally lets you slide to a stop. The front however is a completely different story!
I think my worst failure I've had that had me a bit nervous was a front tire coming off the rim while in a long gradual curve (doing about 65-70mph). Had the fork leg not been there it would have just shot all the way off. Once I recovered from the initial trajectory change (and shorts cleaning) I could actually see the front tire walking off and on the rim as I leaned the bike one direction or the other. So, in that situation I leaned until I got the tire back on the wheel then SPED UP to use centrifugal force to hold it back on the wheel until I could get where I could slow down in a more controlled manner. I rode that way for about 5 miles to get to a nearby shop where I could get air back in the tire (found out later it had a slow leak and when I picked up the bike they had neglected to tell me about it or air the tire up).
I have also had a trans failure that locked up the rear wheel (more then once). BOTH times were under hard acceleration and Both times it was at the shift point when the case cracked and shredded the trans locking up the drivetrain. I think this was easier to deal with since I was in a more alert state then just cruising along like you were.
I think the only other time i've had the rear wheel lock up was only old seca turbo. Broken rear diff (also beating on it) caused that one. I've had a number of rear flat tires which aren't all that bad and thankfully only the one front issue which WAS bad.
Sean
ridinnoshiftin
Well-Known Member
Ed, sorry to hear this news once again. Lets not make this a trilogy! Nice save with keeping it upright. So glad Autum was not on the bike at the time as I fear the results would not have been quite the same. I feel your pain once more. Now, Mr. Morley mentioned a chain drive with a jackshaft. Two ways to approach that idea is chain to jackshaft and chain back to the wheel. Option two would be chain to jackshaft and shaft back to your exising wheel. But I am just thinking out loud once again. As you know, the chain in the case was not my favorite idea, however, no one knows if the other idea would have resulted in better results for sure. Here is another option that may work and be pretty much bullet proof for your setup. What about using shaft drive back to an upside down pumpkin mated to another right side up pumpkin. A shaft would mate the two pumpkins together. The result should be correct rotation with a 1:1 final ratio. The upside down pumpkin would need to have the fill and breather holes relocated 180 degrees. The mating parts would allow whatever offset you need for your swing arm and tire setup. I have not ever heard of anyone launching a pumpkin and the only variable that would be in question would be the shaft between to two pumpkins. Ponder this option, I hope for input from others, maybe I am missing something here and it is a total off the wall idea as I have not spent a lot of time figuring everything out. Ideas? Input? Just trying to give you some ideas before you get locked in to one specific direction. See what you think. Would be nice to get that beast running again with a comfort level you and your wife can trust.
Todd
Todd
CustomMax
Well-Known Member
Yea, it actually would have been alot worse like you said if it was the front wheel for sure. And I didn't wreck so I didn't scare me outta riding anymore and when my buddy on his hopped up sportster decided to make a right turn right in front of me when I thought he was trying to get a jump on me racing and I slammed into him at about 80mph that was much worse. I'm sorry to sound like a wuss here saying it shook me but it was just I think I was just so surprised cause I purposely was just cruising but your right. Lol, reminds me of In the godfather when that Johnny guy who was a singer was crying to Brando saying "what am I gonna do?" And Brando gave him a slap and said "Be a Man!" Lol, thanks Sean for playing the Brando role. I'm determined to make this bitch a rider. And I don't mean Autum. I do keep it nice and refuse to give up on it.
CustomMax
Well-Known Member
Todd, I'm trying to picture the setup your talking about. So, if you can draw a picture if you could and either send it text to 412-225-2324 or email me at [email protected] and thanks for your input you really should get that award I nominated you for. I'll keep you posted on the progress. Ed
ridinnoshiftin
Well-Known Member
Ed,
Maybe this will be more clarification. Think of your current gearbox and location. What I am proposing is replacing that unit with two pumpkins mated together by a housing with a shaft running between them. The housing would have mounting slots/tabs similar to what you have on your current gearbox now. What you would see is the the finished sides of both pumpkins on each end of the tube that would hold a couple of bearings and a shaft to couple the drive rings of the pumpkins. Hope this helps. If you need a drawing I can do one later. WARNING.....it won't be pretty...lol.
Todd
06VMAXIMUS
Well-Known Member
Glad to hear you are OK after all of that. I can't believe that big assed chain blew apart like that. Good luck on the repair, I'm sure it will turn out better than ever!
CustomMax
Well-Known Member
Thanks Bob, and after talking with Sean and Jedi I'm very comfortable with the design that Steve has in mind and I feel alot better this time cause now its gonna be a total new design using a new concept instead of repairing the MadMax design.and this time we're using much stronger components.
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KJShover
Proud Vmax lover
Shit, don't know how I missed this post. Real glad to hear you kept the bike upright and more importantly yourself unscathed.
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Rusty McNeil
Well-Known Member
I'm just thinking out loud here too, but can a ring and pinion setup be reverse driven under heavy load like the second pumpkin would be in this setup if I understand what your proposing?
I don't mean reverse driven in direction of rotation but in power flow, ring to shaft/pinion, rather than the normal shaft/pinion to ring?
I have no idea, just curious..
Your talking about a total of three pumpkins in this setup right?
CustomMax
Well-Known Member
Thanks KJ, just glad of a few things first that wife wasn't on back at the time. Second, glad my son was enough behind me on his sportster to stay clear.
Third, I kept calm enough not to over react
A question for you KJ, if you look back at the chain that broke, what do you think the load strength was on it cause now Jedi is making new gears to fit with a Triplex chain with 10,000 lbs ld and we Jedi and I were trying to figure how much stronger triplex is than that what their calling a timing type chain. Any idea? Let me know, Thanks, Ed
KJShover
Proud Vmax lover
You got me on that one. May have to look that puppy up. I know that ANSI tested a 428 chain, that spins the rear tire, and it took over 3000lbs to break it. They also mentioned that they reccomend not to subject it to force over 810lbs of continuous use. That's a pretty stout number, I imagine the busted one was stronger. To me, it reminds me of a primary drive chain from my XS11 that went around the crank, along side the cam chain.
Check out these guys. They have quite a few chain styles and specs for them. Maybe they can help.
I noticed they have other things too. Could a quick change gearbox be in your future?
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Check out these guys. They have quite a few chain styles and specs for them. Maybe they can help.
I noticed they have other things too. Could a quick change gearbox be in your future?
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ridinnoshiftin
Well-Known Member
Rusty,
Yes, this would use three pumpkins in the setup. I understand the concern with it being reverse driven, and there isn't a 100% guarantee because I doubt that anyone has done it. However, the forces within the pumpkin should be the same either way the pinion and ring gear are driven. We are talking the same hardness in the gears with the same number of teeth engaged, just running one in reverse. In theory it should be fine......but then there is the real world too...lol. My thought was to keep it simple, try to keep the cost down and use as many off the shelf parts as possible. That way if a failure or replacement is needed, they are cheap and easy to get. Also, reliability should not be an issue as these have survived many modified motors on stock pumpkins.
Todd
Yes, this would use three pumpkins in the setup. I understand the concern with it being reverse driven, and there isn't a 100% guarantee because I doubt that anyone has done it. However, the forces within the pumpkin should be the same either way the pinion and ring gear are driven. We are talking the same hardness in the gears with the same number of teeth engaged, just running one in reverse. In theory it should be fine......but then there is the real world too...lol. My thought was to keep it simple, try to keep the cost down and use as many off the shelf parts as possible. That way if a failure or replacement is needed, they are cheap and easy to get. Also, reliability should not be an issue as these have survived many modified motors on stock pumpkins.
Todd
Didn't want to sound like the "Boss" lol. Just wanted to let your wife know that the situation you had, though not something to set your goals to do, wasn't something that I think would stop a guy from riding or trying to improve on the design.
I think going with the new case design by a guy that makes his living with gears (Jedi) is going to be the way to go. We obviously saw the original gears we replaced and how they were made by Madmax so we know he's not a drivetrain designer lol.
Sean
I think going with the new case design by a guy that makes his living with gears (Jedi) is going to be the way to go. We obviously saw the original gears we replaced and how they were made by Madmax so we know he's not a drivetrain designer lol.
Sean
CustomMax
Well-Known Member
Yea Sean, I've been talking with Steve and he said he's gonna make one gear with 15 teeth and one with 16 as in if I put the 15 facing the rear wheel it will be and overdrive for higher top speed or if I put the 16 facing rear it will be an underdrive and create more torque and low end power. Does that sound right? I'd go with the overdrive to have less resistance when I let off the throttle. What's your thoughts on this? He also said he's gonna use a Triplex chain with new gears to fit I'm gonna get new seals for the case. He said the triplex chain has a load rating of 10,000 lbs we are still trying to find what the old chain that MadMax used was rated at. I've been looking and KJ shows a link to a website for chains if you look a couple posts above this and it looks like it was called a silent chain. If you can, take a look and let us know what you think. Thanks, I have total confidence in Steve especially cause this won't be a repair like last time kinda was it will be a whole new design. Oh, and he's making the gears that way to also eliminate the tensioner. Let me know what you think. Thanks, Ed
Redbone
Well-Known Member
Man Ed, good save on the lockup! I'm glad your well on your way to resolving the current setup issues or possibly working a different way to go.
Also, it was good to finally meet you in person (and your son)! It's always nice to put a smiling face to a name on the forum. :thumbs up: :thumbs up:
Also, it was good to finally meet you in person (and your son)! It's always nice to put a smiling face to a name on the forum. :thumbs up: :thumbs up:
CustomMax
Well-Known Member
Likewise Brian, I'm confident Jedi has pretty much came up with a Bullit proof design so I won't have to worry about that happening again. My Son was surprised how nice everyone was even though he was on a Harley and it was nice to meet you in person and Thanks again for helping get my battery issue fixed. Take care, Ed
I'll try to find time to look through the chains. My initial personal thought is that the chain used in the original design is made for slow rotation and not high speed rototions. The links are held in with simple pins and not rollers (at least from what I can see there).
Probably very strong for the application intended but not for this application.
Sean
Probably very strong for the application intended but not for this application.
Sean
