Metal noise inside of wheel hub?

[gamorg02]

Ok so i have a question here and some reasoning behind it:

A. Question:
Who here (i know sean and definitely others) has seen a rear vmax wheel completely stripped down? and can remember which (if any) bolt holes go straight thru into the hub (dust cover screws or rotor screws perhaps?)

B. Reasoning:
When i was doing all my fluid changes last weekend i kept rotating the rear wheel to do the final drive fluid.. when i was rotating it i heard like a metal noise, initially i thought something got between the dust covers of the wheel and the drive spline.. so i took the rear wheel off.

Nothing was there.. so i rolled the wheel on the ground and listened, thinking something got in between the tyre and the rim, but after listening it sounded like it was coming from not like the bearings and sleeve but where the hub is (like where the dust cover bolts screw into and the star pattern for the rotor bolts). i tried holding the sleeve still and everything but it definitely sounded like that b/c it wasn't a coutinuous noise when it was moving but more intermittent like it was stuck in the star pattern and would fall to the next one each time that star got high enough and gravity brought the pieces down...

the guy that did my rims didn't replace the bearings, he said they were good to go after taking them off. no reason for him to lie, i was going to eat the cost of bearings if it needed new ones. never heard a complaint about him either..

so with that being said my thoughts are:

a. a bearing broke and its a ball or two in there making noise, but i wasn't sure if there is an open area (or if its all open or closed) for a bearing to get from the sleeve portion into the 'hub' area.

b. he had to drill out one of the rotor bolts and 3 of the dust cover bolts. they all broke. he showed me the bolts. could have drilling any of those had shavings fall into the hub?

c. something i'm not thinking of?


anyways i appreciate anyone taking the time to let me know what they think. I think either way i'm going to take the wheel (on or off the bike) to him on saturday and have him listen... i drove it all last saturday without problem, and turning the wheel there doesn't seem to be any rough spots in the rotation (like a bad bearring) when its on the bike or if i hold the inner sleeve of the bearrings still off the bike...

thanks in advance guys!

 

[one2dmax]

It is hollow inside but I am not sure if the holes you are talking about go all the way in (would need to look). But the rear bearing spacer and flange do kind of float loosely in there. You can stick your finger into the wheel and hold it in place while you roll it to see if that's what you are hearing.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

It is hollow inside but I am not sure if the holes you are talking about go all the way in (would need to look). But the rear bearing spacer and flange do kind of float loosely in there. You can stick your finger into the wheel and hold it in place while you roll it to see if that's what you are hearing.

Sean

i did try hold the sleeve and thats def not it. held it right down...

the reason i think its in the hub is that like it sounds like the metal pieces are falling (not rolling) as it would if it was stuck in something smooth, not a star(ish) pattern.

it also doesn't sound like its rolling (like a bearring) which makes me lean more torwards shavings..

sean,

are you saying where the bearing sleeve spacer goes in, that is all open all the way into the star design that the rotor bolts go into? or is it like a solid cylinder separating the two compartments?

maybe its something from the p/cing? i would doubt it tho b/c every bolt hole gets plugged eh?

thanks again guys!

 

[one2dmax]

Yes, its completely hollow inside. That's one way the factory was able to keep some of the weight down on the rear wheels. It could be a chunk of the old bolt or something else. It's likely not going to hurt anything.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

thanks sean...

if it was a ball bearring i think i'd know by the bearring already eh? hear other noises/friction when rotating the tire? also i believe the '03 had sealed bearings so it would REALLY have to be destroyed for a bearring to get out

what keeps the sleeve/spacer in place if its all hollow? are there grooves in the bearing or are the bearrings just pounded/placed so it can barely move?

 

[one2dmax]

The spacer flange is pressed onto the spacer which holds it up on one side. then it fits into the recess on the other side and is sandwiched between the bearings.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

The spacer flange is pressed onto the spacer which holds it up on one side. then it fits into the recess on the other side and is sandwiched between the bearings.

Sean

i follow.. thanks sean...

as usual u the man

 

[RazoR333]

The stock bushings for rear wheel damping are made of very cheap material and start to rust after getting wet. The metal bushing releases from the rubber part and it can drop into the free space inside the hub, making a rattling noise you can hear when pushing your bike or rotating the wheel on the center stand.

 

[gamorg02]

The stock bushings for rear wheel damping are made of very cheap material and start to rust after getting wet. The metal bushing releases from the rubber part and it can drop into the free space inside the hub, making a rattling noise you can hear when pushing your bike or rotating the wheel on the center stand.

sweet... i'm glad u guys both said nothing to worry about... i figured it wasn't unless it was a bearring, and the fact that i/he reused them doesn't seem to be jumping out at anyone as well, and that sgood

sean and razor thanks guys!

 

[Dreamster66]

The spacer flange is pressed onto the spacer which holds it up on one side. then it fits into the recess on the other side and is sandwiched between the bearings.

Sean

same deal on the front,right?

 

[one2dmax]

Yes, I believe so. It's been a little while but there is still a spacer in between the bearings.

Sean

 

[satariel666]

The stock bushings for rear wheel damping are made of very cheap material and start to rust after getting wet. The metal bushing releases from the rubber part and it can drop into the free space inside the hub, making a rattling noise you can hear when pushing your bike or rotating the wheel on the center stand.

That's why i've made my dampers from polyamide for gsxr new wheel.
Old ones are impossible to remove without destroying them.
It's a real shit.

Same happend with exhaust mounting dampers.

 

[gamorg02]

so the noise i originally opened this thread for wasnt' the sleeve. it was some metal shavings in there.


but, that did eventually happen. i put some electrical tape on the sleeves and pressed them in there.

they're loose again. talked to Sean last night and i was thinking of RTV or supergluing them back to the damper, but he said maybe try tackwelding them to the pins of the spline themselves. gonna need a new rear tire in the next week or so, so i'll deal with it it then.

hey razor, what did u end up doing? ya need those spacers (obviously) as its a bit too loose w/out them.

 

[Miles Long]

I have an 03, and during my last rear wheel removal noticed exactly the same noise as described in the original post. My first thought was that a bearing had failed, but both were in good shape. After removing the snap ring, I attempted to remove the ball bearing to allow for a closer inspection of the internals, by lightly tapping on the inner race, but it didn't move. I don't have the proper wheel bearing remover for this job, and didn't want to destroy a good bearing by cutting it out. So I made the assumption that whatever had gotten in the hollow of the hub (perhaps a piece of a rotor attachment bolt???), would not cause a problem, since the noise only occured during a very slow rotation of the wheel, while the bike was on the centrestand. Rotating the wheel faster caused the noise to cease, meaning the loose piece was being held in place by centrifugal force, as it would be when the bike was being ridden.
I have since put a few thousand miles on the bike, and the noise has not gotten any louder. The bike will be due for a brake rotor changeout soon, so at that time I will dig a bit deeper into the problem.
But my question is.... has anyone with this problem discovered the source of this noise?????
All answers appreciated, Miles Long

 

[gamorg02]

miles,

take the wheel off, then remove the drive spline. there is a a circlip (snapring) that holds it in. once that is off, each of the 6 pegs goes into 6 dampers on the wheel. each damper consists of a metal outer sleeve that gets pressed into the wheel with the rubber in that and then a metal sleeve inside of the rubber. those internal metal sleeves can get loose. see if some of them are. that, along with some shavings from some stripped screws, was my issue. its all but gone now. as per morley's advice i had the internal sleeves welded tac'd onto the pins on the drive spline. more permanent and cheaper than getting all new dampers in there. one rubber damper had come loose off of the outer sleeve as well. i just epoxied it in.

hope that helps? if all else fails take a pic and upload it.

 

[Bill Seward]

My '85 has done this since it was almost new. Sounds like a BB is bouncing around in there. Nothing has fallen out or apart yet, and to be honest, I forgot about it till i read this thread.

 

[gamorg02]

i cleaned mine out when i had the drive spline out with a magnet!

 

[Miles Long]

Thanks for the prompt replies, Garrett and Bill. I did have the spline assembly out when I inspected the bearings, and at the time I cannot remember any of the internal metal sleeves being out of place, but maybe a closer inspection would have revealed that one may have fragmented, with the broken piece gone within the hub???, In any case, next time the wheel is off the bike, I will disassemble again, and do the magnet thing. Until then, Bill's reply certainly puts my mind at ease. If an '85 can live with the symptom all those years, the disease certainly doesn't seem to be terminal !
Cheers, Miles

 

[gamorg02]

miles, bill. i think a small amount of noise is understandable esp if u've ever re-tapped some of the holes, however those metal sleeves in there could be more serious as there is TONS of play between the pins of the spline and the damper without them. probably loosing power if nothing else. i wouldn't and didn't feel right with it.