Something just not right

[CustomMax]

I put the one piece gear/shafts in and on my test ride I can feel something just not right. It doesn't make any noise but I can feel something like not meshing or along those lines. I only have put 14 VERY easy miles on it. I sure as hell don't want to break or mess up the new parts. I've done this 4-5 times before and never had this problem. What am I missing here? The real tough part is that this isn't stock so I'm kinda fucked as far as where to turn to for help. I do realize the importance of having the swingarm adjusted to the middle gear output. But it almost feels like something isn't fully engaging or like a gear somewhere isn't fully connecting to something. Any ideas welcome.

 

[twistedmax]

Unless that replacement gear is PERFECT , EXACTLY the same cut and pitch and all that good stuff ,it may make noise, how did that repacement gear seem to mesh with the gear it drives? as smoth as the original? could it need to be shimmed like a ring and pinion gear? is not right mean BAD? or just different?

 

[CustomMax]

Rick, thanks for the response. I have it jacked up and with it in gear there seems to be some play which I'm sure there should be but it just feels kinda sloppy. Not the new gears but seems to be more in the middle gear from what I can tell so far. I also put a new middle gear with new universal and yoke as well. It's just pissin me off cause as many times that I've done this I never had an issue like this and sure as hell don't want to mess up the new parts that's why I figured I'll pull it all back apart and kinda start over. I'm hoping its just something I overlooked when I put it in. The custom female end was real tight going into the new rear custom shaft/ gear and I had to tap it in but Sean said that that's probably cause the new splines have no play. I'm doing this right now so ill keep you posted. Ed

 

[jedi-]

The gears made are actually not gears but sprockets that run on a "silent" chain.
There are variants of that profile depending on the manufacturer and are not common.
We manufactured using a Module profile that in base pitch was seemingly the same as the sample we were sent which is quite worn on its profile. Unfortunately we didn't have the silent chain to test after manufacture so could never verify the mesh with that particular chain in question.

I'm not sure if the issue you have is the chain on the sprockets and the way it is meshing or it could be another problem all together and not an issue at all.
If it does turn out to be an issue the good news is it is quite fixable but the bad news is we would have to have the chain to test it as well as the sprockets again.
I'm sure its all been a headache but it can be fixed no problem if it needs to be.

 

[CustomMax]

Steve, I thought that you might need that chain after I sent those. I thought I found the issue after I took it almost completely back apart. There was play in the swingarm. I was so worried about lining everything up I forgot to lock the swingarm bolts down. But after 3 hrs taking it apart and putting it back together it still has the same issue. So it looks like I'm taking it apart AGAIN. It feels like when your starting out its slipping. Not a clutch feel but either in the transfer case that you made those parts for or the middle gear where the universal connects to the front shaft. Here's a pic of how the chain fits on those gears/ sprockets
I'm not positive but I think the original sprockets pulled the chain tighter. But I'm not sure, and if you think the chain looks tight enough that it wouldn't slip ill take your word on it. If you need any more pics let me know. And I'll let you know what I find when I take it apart again. Thank You, Ed


Sent from my iPhone 4S

 

[jedi-]

Hard to really tell without seeing it in person but the chain looks quite loose.
The new sprockets were made to the same OD as the old and as the chain fits around the outside on silent chain profiles I can only assume the tension would be about the same which leads the question as to the centre distance at which the housing was made in the first place to accommodate both the sprockets versus the chain length.
If you're fairly sure the issue relates to the chain and sprocket mesh you could if it suited you to send the housing, chain and sprockets and we'll sort it for you.
There might be a couple of alternate options that I can think of to get this thing finally sorted.
I know its a pain but it can easily be sorted.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

That chain looks too loose I think?

What's this on?

 

[CustomMax]

Thanks Jedi, it looks like I'll tear it back down this weekend and ship the whole assembly to you. I'm fairly certain the chain tension is the issue now after taking it completely apart and back together last night. I've done this enough times and thought I maybe forgot to tighten something but after last night I checked EVERY bolt, connection and made sure I did it all but just my luck it's still doing the same thing and until you mentioned the chain tightness I never thought about that. I fully agree you only had the old sprockets to go by and the ones you made I'm sure will be way stronger but I did notice when I put the chain on the new ones it did seem a bit looser but didn't think it would be an issue. I really appreciate all your efforts as well as Sean's to get this fixed once and for all. I'll email Sean and let him know of our discussion and have him aware what's going on. With a little luck maybe I can still get this back together and at least do a little riding before the snow starts around here and have to park it for winter. Thanks again, Ed and Rusty those parts are from my MadMax design swingarm for my 250 rear tire. It's kinda a transfer case so to speak.

 

[ridinnoshiftin]

Ed,

Just thinking out loud here......hmmmm, what about using a similiar set up to a gear drive on a camshaft? Eliminate that chain altogether. It should make it ultimately smooth on take off and no backlash on decel. I too thought there was too much play in the chain when you posted the picture. Another option might be to have an idler roller or gear to take up the slack. Just a couple of options that may have merit.

Todd

 

[CustomMax]

I actually thought of a tensioner of some kind but I'm no fabricator so if that's an option I'm sure Sean and Steve will consider it but I'm sure there's quite a bit more tension on that chain than where I've ever seen on a belt tensioner. And there's not a lot of room in that case to mount it. It was a pretty tight setup with no chain lash and I'm sure when the pros have all the parts to work with they will come up with a superior design and will be finally as it should have been from the start.

 

[jedi-]

Ed,

Just thinking out loud here......hmmmm, what about using a similiar set up to a gear drive on a camshaft? Eliminate that chain altogether. It should make it ultimately smooth on take off and no backlash on decel. I too thought there was too much play in the chain when you posted the picture. Another option might be to have an idler roller or gear to take up the slack. Just a couple of options that may have merit.

Todd

You can't run 2 gears because it would run backwards. You would have to run an idler gear
meaning 3 to make it go in the right direction.

 

[CustomMax]

Jedi, how much merit does the idea of a tensioner have ? Actually I guess we'd want a simpler more direct design instead of adding components. ( less to go wrong) so to say, right? Better yet, I'll shut up and start taking it apart and getting it ready to be shipped. That I do know how to do. I gotta email Sean too. I'll do that tomorrow morning. Thanks

 

[ridinnoshiftin]

I understand running two gears would make it go in a reverse direction. I never said to drive the one gear off the other directly to eliminate the chain. Thats why I said making a set up like the gear drive is done for a camshaft. Maybe I wasn't clear in my description. As far as running an idler, the idler is put on the no load side of the chain to take up the slack during normal running (acceleration) and the idler is only loaded during deceleration or any variation that is not under full load. Hope this clears things up a bit. And yes you are correct, there is not alot of room in that case, but it is do able, just limits the diameter of the gears.

Todd

You can't run 2 gears because it would run backwards. You would have to run an idler gear
meaning 3 to make it go in the right direction.

 

[CustomMax]

Ok, looks like the chain between the sprockets had too much play so now I sent the whole transfer case to New Zealand to let the expert do his magic. I first took it to UPS and without any insurance they said " $367.00" one way. HOLY PISS!! I almost threw up! So I then went to the good old USPS and they shipped it for $135 with $1000.00 insurance not that that would fully pay for a new one but its better than nothing. So now he'll have the sprockets, chain, bearings and the whole case so there should be every possible angle covered. PLEASE GOD!! Let this be the final solution!! Thanks to Sean and Steve I'll finally have my bike fixed like it should have been from the go. Ed

 

[twistedmax]

ED, Ive used the USPS for almost three years for shipping MAXGASSER's all over the world,...............never lost one , never damaged one.............but its gonna take a while isnt it? will you have it back for this season? Guess it doesnt matter at least it will be right!

 

[CustomMax]

Actually Rick, they said it should be there in about 6 days so that's not bad, I'm still hoping to get at least 1 or 2 nice day rides in before I put it away for the season. And like you said at least it will be finally right! I'll keep you posted. Ed

 

[gamorg02]

yea usps is really quite good. i've been using their online services so you just pop in the addr, pick your service, print out the sheet, tape it on and throw it out near the mailbox. most times its like 4-5$ cheaper (on like a 15$ shipping item) by doing it online

 

[CustomMax]

Only Me!! Today a pkg showed up at my house. It's the pkg that I shipped to Jedi in a different box with the same label I wrote to be sent to New Zealand. I know it can't possibly be fixed cause Steve said he wouldn't be home till next week!! So I took 8 days and $135.00 to ship it 30 miles from out by where I work to my house!!! Fuck Me!!! The Post office was closed by the time I saw this but you can bet I'm gonna take this back to the Post office I sent this from and they BETTER send this fucking thing for free. How could they screw this up this bad? WTF?? Some idiot must have saw the return address and sent it back here.

 

[wildweasel_pt]

That happened to me once here. They sent it where it belonged free of charge of course. You shouldn't pay for others mistakes.

 

[gamorg02]

Only Me!! Today a pkg showed up at my house. It's the pkg that I shipped to Jedi in a different box with the same label I wrote to be sent to New Zealand. I know it can't possibly be fixed cause Steve said he wouldn't be home till next week!! So I took 8 days and $135.00 to ship it 30 miles from out by where I work to my house!!! Fuck Me!!! The Post office was closed by the time I saw this but you can bet I'm gonna take this back to the Post office I sent this from and they BETTER send this fucking thing for free. How could they screw this up this bad? WTF?? Some idiot must have saw the return address and sent it back here.

how'd it get into a different box?