Swingarm notch question.

[misiek93]

So, I'm going to attempt to notch my swingarm on my own this weekend (what's the worse that can happen, right :rofl_200 My question (actually two questions) is this:

1. How deep do I have to notch the swingarm to fit 200 size tire and clear the drive shaft (obviously). I know I have to notch both sides but not sure how deep I need/can go.

2. Do I have to brace the swingarm after notching? I don't see why I would have to but I found conflicting opinions so now I'm not sure.

I currently have 190/55/17 and have just enough clearance on both sides for the tire not to rub on both sides.

Thanks in advance.

 

[wildweasel_pt]

You can notch to the point the shaft rubs on the inner wall but this is a no brainer. The bracing is just to stiffen the swingarm. If you are going at it for the notch might as well brace it...

 

[Rusty McNeil]

You do not need to to notch both sides to fit a 200 unless whatever wheel you have is really wierdly offset

 

[one2dmax]

You do not need to to notch both sides to fit a 200 unless whatever wheel you have is really wierdly offset

Correct, if you have to notch the right side your wheel is way offset and it won't handle as well as it could.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

so on a stock swingarm it seems about 190 is the biggest tire with minimal bad offset. and even then i needed a washer swap (but didn't on another swingarm) so i think thats about the limit.

i def agree with sean, moving it that much over (without a custom swingarm to re-center the wheel) could start the handling to go wonky.

 

[misiek93]

Thanks guys for the info, as always it's a lot of help. I thought you have to notch both sides of the swingarm since the tire will be wider on both sides of the wheel. I'm not sure what offset I have now, Prez converted my wheel so I'm guessing it's pretty close to stock offset since the bike handles very well and looking at it from the back, everything seems to line up pretty good.

I need to get this done this weekend since I'm able to get my powdercoating done for free but I have to drop the parts off Monday the latest or the free PC option won't be available anymore.

I'd love to brace the swingarm at the same time but it doesn't look like that will happen, I can't get the right tubing in time plus the pipe bender my brother has in the shop may not be capable of bending such small diameter pipe. Not a big deal to me really.

There was another bracing option I found on here (can't seem to find it now) that basically replaces the round cross section of the swingarm with two square tubes welded in it's place. From what I remember, the concensus was it would work just as well. The only thing I'd be worried about is the swingarm warping on me from the heat since I don't have a jig to hold it in place.

 

[wildweasel_pt]

Correct, if you have to notch the right side your wheel is way offset and it won't handle as well as it could.

Sean

And im almost sure it will rub the brake stay before it touches the swingarm. That can easily be corrected though...
For welding the swingarm you can use the diff in place and the axle properly bolted BUT you need to get a pipe with a ID with at least 20mm to replace the wheel inbetween the diff and the right swingarm arm, in order for the swingarm not to "close" the arms together, it doesn't "open" them because the axle won't allow (its fixed in place with the big nut on diff side and the swingarm pinch clamp on the right side. You still can have it twist but clamped with vises on a bench should suffice. The trick is to weld it slowly and do not apply too much heat... But Sean has much more experience to talk about this... There was a discussion on vmaxtech listing a while back where he talked about that...

EDIT - Tacking the brace in place also helps to prevent from warping on welding the whole thing up

 

[misiek93]

And im almost sure it will rub the brake stay before it touches the swingarm. That can easily be corrected though...

My brake stay is bolted to the outside of the tabs so that's not an issue. It had to be moved to clear the 190 tire :biglaugh:

 

[one2dmax]

The biggest thing on the notch is that when it welds back up the arm will "pull" inwards on you. This has to be straightened back out prior to welding the brace on it. The tighter the fit of the parts before welding the less moving around they will do when welding up.

Sean

 

[wildweasel_pt]

My brake stay is bolted to the outside of the tabs so that's not an issue. It had to be moved to clear the 190 tire :biglaugh:

You can also take the chance to weld a plain bracket and make it an underslung brake if you like it...

 

[wildweasel_pt]

The biggest thing on the notch is that when it welds back up the arm will "pull" inwards on you. This has to be straightened back out prior to welding the brace on it. The tighter the fit of the parts before welding the less moving around they will do when welding up.

Sean

Thats what i meant when i said to get the pipe over the axle to prevent it from closing in...

 

[[email protected]]

You can also take the chance to weld a plain bracket and make it an underslung brake if you like it...

I cut the OEM bracket off the top and got it welded on the bottom here at work. Also, cut off the OEM brake line holders, repositioned, and welded them as needed to run the new brake line.

 

[misiek93]

The biggest thing on the notch is that when it welds back up the arm will "pull" inwards on you. This has to be straightened back out prior to welding the brace on it. The tighter the fit of the parts before welding the less moving around they will do when welding up.

Sean

Thanks for the heads up, I can use a pipe over the axel as suggested and clamp everything down. Should do the job from what I'm hearing.

 

[misiek93]

I cut the OEM bracket off the top and got it welded on the bottom here at work. Also, cut off the OEM brake line holders, repositioned, and welded them as needed to run the new brake line.

You can also take the chance to weld a plain bracket and make it an underslung brake if you like it...

I'll leave it alone for now. I plan on getting a rear brake caliper and rotor from 05 zx10 to match my fronts. I have it set up with stock rotor/caliper now and the only way to remove the caliper is to remove the bleed screw first, otherwise it hits the rim just enough to prevent the caliper from being removed. PITA anytime I need to change the brake pads or remove the wheel.

 

[[email protected]]

I'll leave it alone for now. I plan on getting a rear brake caliper and rotor from 05 zx10 to match my fronts. I have it set up with stock rotor/caliper now and the only way to remove the caliper is to remove the bleed screw first, otherwise it hits the rim just enough to prevent the caliper from being removed. PITA anytime I need to change the brake pads or remove the wheel.

I noticed the same issue when I mocked up my 17" rear. I had it set up with a 298mm front rotor. Too damn tight getting the stock caliper in there.

 

[wildweasel_pt]

I'll leave it alone for now. I plan on getting a rear brake caliper and rotor from 05 zx10 to match my fronts. I have it set up with stock rotor/caliper now and the only way to remove the caliper is to remove the bleed screw first, otherwise it hits the rim just enough to prevent the caliper from being removed. PITA anytime I need to change the brake pads or remove the wheel.

You shouldn't be messing with the bleeder... You should be able to slide the pads out after removing the pins on the caliper... To remove the wheel just unscrew the 2 caliper bolts and ziptie the caliper to the rotor so it doesn't mess up your paintjob on the rim. I'd consider getting a wider spacer for the rotor and then shave the caliper bracket a bit, it will even give you better clearance for the tire on the brake stay... You will also need an axle spacer for the amount shaved on the bracket... It all depends on how your setup is...

 

[misiek93]

You shouldn't be messing with the bleeder... You should be able to slide the pads out after removing the pins on the caliper... To remove the wheel just unscrew the 2 caliper bolts and ziptie the caliper to the rotor so it doesn't mess up your paintjob on the rim. I'd consider getting a wider spacer for the rotor and then shave the caliper bracket a bit, it will even give you better clearance for the tire on the brake stay... You will also need an axle spacer for the amount shaved on the bracket... It all depends on how your setup is...

That's the thing, the caliper will not come out no matter how you try to do it. There isn't enough room between the lip of the rim and top of the rotor for the caliper to come out, unless you remove the bleed screw. The caliper bracket is alredy machined down a bit but can be machined even more if I get a wider spacer. For now it's good enough as I don't really remove the wheel all that often. Look at the picture, I circled what hits the rim, trust me I've tried every which way to remove it but it will not fit. I have to either loosen up the adapter or take out the bleeder screw. I need about 5cm more clearance and it will be fine.

 

[wildweasel_pt]

Yes i know what you mean. That should have been tested prior in order to avoid that... I was about to have the same issue on my 18" rear, but with a 310mm rotor, but i took it into account and brought the rotor further out to prevent that, so i could slide the calipers in with no issues...

 

[[email protected]]

I was able to get my caliper on and off a 298mm rotor mounted on a 17" rim. It was pain to do though. Pads had to be removed and pistons had to be pushed into the caliper body all the way. The rubber cap on the bleed nipple would rub on the rim when it came out.

Seems like the bleed nipples on these OEM vmax rear calipers stick out a bit far doesn't it? I never noticed it till I went to mount it on the new wheel.

 

[one2dmax]

Or, remove the rotor bolts and let it hang down. Still not an easy proposition.

Sean