The honeymoon is over.. Sad.

[Bill Seward]

Watching the news, looks like Trumpfy got his panties in a real bunch over Harley-Davidsons decision to start manufacturing bikes overseas. I guess he never figured out that a good portion of the "American Made" bike is imported.. Now he's threatening them, and predicting "the beginning of the end" for them.

Yet another instance of the Orange Asshole turning on someone who does something he doesn't agree with.

Wondering if all the Harleyboys wearing their cute red MAGA hats and driving their pickup trucks with Trump bumper stickers plastered all over them are having second thoughts now? We all know there guys eat, breathe, sleep, dream and love all things Harley over all else. Trumps audacity to speak ill of The Motor Company must really rot their (official HD branded) socks..

Lol.

 

[adambweird]

Oddly enough, the europeans really like hardlys so it makes sense for them to manufacture them on the other side of the world for those markets. They wont be imported back to the us at all, us market bikes will be "made" here. Its a smart business move, one that toyota and honda both figured out long ago.

 

[one2dmax]

I do agree with his statement about the "allure" of buying an American made bike. That's about one of the only reasons some people buy Harleys here as well and I know some won't make any future purchases of them due to this (even though they would be getting the "american made" versions).

Harley has been struggling for years and were planning to move or close one of the plants here well before the whole Tariff war started. I tend to agree that this may be yet another decision that they end up regretting. Time will tell.

 

[marsmax85]

Leaving my stickers on and still riding my Vmax ..

 

[Kronx]

"Trade Wars are easy to win." - DJT

Harley had announced last year they were closing the plant in KC. I was curious if those jobs were the ones "moving". Their American sales have been on the decline while their overseas sales have been on the rise. So it makes sense really. Although given how Harley regarded as an American icon, and given the thrashing the American reputation has been taking internationally, they've got a lot of hurdles to overcome.

There's a sad irony that in order to enact these tariffs Trump declared our allies that fought and died with us in Afghanistan national security threats. And now to keep an iconic American brand in business that company is moving production to those "national security threats."

News like this is going to become more frequent soon. One of the largest nail companies in America is here in Missouri and these steel tariffs have hurt them in just a couple of months. Their orders have dropped 50% and they've had to lay off workers. And the business around that nail company, the packaging companies for example, are also laying off.

http://fox2now.com/2018/06/26/missouri-business-lays-off-workers-in-response-to-nail-company/

"Trade Wars are easy to win." - DJT

The thing is, the real shit hasn't even hit the fan, because the tariffs Canada is going to retaliate with don't go into effect until July. And Canada is one of the biggest importers of American goods. And they vowed to match Trump's tariffs dollar for dollar. But I'm sure it will all be fine since trade wars are easy to win.

 

[Bill Seward]

Trade wars are easy to a halfwitted asshole like Trumpf. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth, no scruples about screwing people over financially or personally. He will feel no pain like the MAGA crowd is about to.. Sad..

 

[CaptainKyle]

Harley started moving stuff years ago they built a factory in Indonesia in 2014 but I supposes that was Trumps fault to. I worked at Harley dealerships & watched orders come in. I bet at least half of it was from outside the united states. Like someone else said Honda & Toyota figured it out years ago. Harley has been struggling for a while . It is not just Harley the new generation just does not care about bikes like the older generation. I think bike sales are down with every manufacture. Hell if the Harley people cared that much they would have quit buying merchandise years ago because almost all of it says made in Indonesia or china on it but they still buy it like crazy.

 

[CaptainKyle]

One more thing Indian has been kicking ass & taking names & is more American than Harley now. I know a lot of people that have switched !

 

[Kronx]

Harley started moving stuff years ago they built a factory in Indonesia in 2014 but I supposes that was Trumps fault to. I worked at Harley dealerships & watched orders come in. I bet at least half of it was from outside the united states. Like someone else said Honda & Toyota figured it out years ago. Harley has been struggling for a while . It is not just Harley the new generation just does not care about bikes like the older generation. I think bike sales are down with every manufacture. Hell if the Harley people cared that much they would have quit buying merchandise years ago because almost all of it says made in Indonesia or china on it but they still buy it like crazy.

Fair point. A lot of companies have wanted to ship jobs overseas, but didn't want the negative press associated with it. So this trade war will provide them that opportunity to finally move those jobs overseas and deflect blame to the tariffs. Given Trump's tweets regarding the Harley Davidson decision it doesn't seem Trump anticipated that. Unless tweeting at them like a couple going through a break up was his plan to counter it. Which is entirely possible.

The company I work for has about 350,000 employees worldwide and they've been laying off thousands the last few months but doing so in a way that's avoided the headlines surprisingly. Makes me wonder how many other companies are doing the same. I wonder if InBev will use these aluminium tariffs to gut Budweiser even more now.

 

[one2dmax]

I worked for Boeing (prior to Spirit Aerosystems) and can tell you that Nafta did for damn sure drive jobs out of the country to cheaper to build sites (though their quality sucked ass for a really long time until the monkeys there learned how to drill straight holes with sharp bits). I was layed off one time for a large work transfer to italy (I think is where they moved the work). So, I am not a fan at all.

We're going to have some serious growing pains that will require us to understand we won't get getting cheap china products for much longer. Some are not going to like that since they love those cheap parts. Those are also many of the same people that weren't layed off when those jobs left.

The only people that benefited was the stock holders at the companies that sent the stuff off. We export far more then we import and can self provide a lot of stuff. We just have to be willing to hold on long enough for the other team to throw in the towel.

Did I mention yet i'm tired of seeing my jobs leave the country so that someone else can make it for 1/10th the price, get no benefits, work in slave labor camps with oppressive regimes, and see just a few remaining people benefit?

 

[Kronx]

Wall Street owns DC so Wall Street will always have the advantage over main street. I've yet to see anything that indicates that's going to change anytime soon. The GOP tax plan only re-enforced that advantage IMO.

But you might be right. No one knows for certain what these trade wars will do. I think we're gonna get fucked and another recession is on the horizon in a year or two. But admittedly I'm an idiot so I could be completely wrong. In fact i hope I'm wrong. I will gladly eat my crow on being wrong on that.

All I can do at this point is drink another beer and hope for the best.

 

[Kronx]

Well it seems we're spending 12 billion to stop the bleeding of the trade war. So if I put this trade war into boxing terms, what I'm seeing right now the first round is over. And the fighters have gone back to their corners. China is looking across the ring and seeing USA having a bleeding eye being worked on by the cut man. A cutmans work is only temporary, one good hit on that cut and it will bleed again. That's all I see this 12 billion being: a temp fix for a long fight. And no reason to think China is gonna throw in the towel at this point. Cuz their barely breaking a sweat right now and they see the adversary already in trouble.

"Trade Wars are easy to win." - DJT

Guess if we're going to win this, it's gonna be a Rocky movie and we got a dozen more rounds of getting whooped before we land the knockout. Most expensive Rocky movie ever.

Trump Administration Plans $12 Billion In Farm Aid To Offset Tariffs
https://www.npr.org/2018/07/24/6319...-provide-farmers-12-billion-to-offset-tariffs

 

[one2dmax]

I don't particularly agree. China's people are getting pissed at their own government as well since it's heavily impacting them. They export FAR more then we export to them. Not even a close race. Time will tell who will come out the winner. it's just a matter of who can hold out the longest.

 

[marsmax85]

I'm betting on the Trump team !

 

[Kronx]

I don't particularly agree. China's people are getting pissed at their own government as well since it's heavily impacting them. They export FAR more then we export to them. Not even a close race. Time will tell who will come out the winner. it's just a matter of who can hold out the longest.

From what I understand while the US is China's biggest export, it counts for roughly 18% of their exports. 18% will be felt, no doubt, but 82% of their exports not depending on US trade seems to indicate to me they can absorb that pain. The American economy for the last few decades has been on this boom and bust cycle. We busted in 2007, we've recovered and I just fear this trade war will accelerate the bust. I'm not opposed to being tougher on China at all. My concern is Trump started trade wars with damn near everyone else AND China. We need to be able to absorb that pain that comes with a trade war with China, and starting trade wars with our allies seems counterproductive to that goal. I dunno. I admit, I'm not that adept in global economics. There seems to be some pause in escalation with the trade war with the EU today. But nothing in writing yet. So nothing really gained at the moment other than a verbal agreement of shit not getting worse.

Why are the Chinese people pissed at their government though? Trump started the trade war, but they're mad at their government for retaliating? That kinda odd isn't it? I know there's fears and anxiety about the trade war, just as there is over here, but I had not heard them being mad at their government about the trade war Trump started. Either way, since China isn't a democracy, and Xi Ping is president for life, I'm not sure how far the people getting pissed really goes over there.

Time will tell I suppose.