V Boost and Carb Tuning ?'s

[06x6spdGTO]

Ah, just assumed that PAJ2 was stock.

When I had Supertrapps I was all stock except 150 main jets. I was running 8 diffuser discs with open end caps.

right now i have 6 discs with open end caps. i dont have anymore discs to add. but hopefully changing the PAJ2's will fix it. im not sure what size mains are in it. i have a completely stock air box with just a K&N. ordered a set of 170 PAJ2's came to a total of 42.54 from yamaha.

 

[06x6spdGTO]

well i got the 170 PAJ#2's installed today and it still made no difference in the stalling, sputtering mess. It pulley hard to about 5400rpm then from about 5600rpm to 6400rpm its falls on its face. but from 6400rpm on it goes like a mother until i shift from 1st to 2nd. then it starts stalling horribly again at about 7000rpm. What do i need to change next?

also i have pics of the springs, needles, and PAJ#2's being removed so incase any newbies come in they have a idea of where to start.

taking off covers and removing spring.

spring and cover ^

Diaphram and Needle Seat^

Inside Carb with Diaphram Removed / and PAJ#2 still in place (small brass Screw on the Right)

PAJ#2 Removed^

Reinstall the way you took apart. Just remember to make sure the spring is seated on the retainers of the Cover.

 

[lankeeyankee]

You can play around with PAJ all day long and its NOT going to fix mid range problems PAJ are for idle up to 2K
Your running rich springs are to weak or your slides are moving to quickly
Lower your needles increase spring pressure RESYNCH carbs

 

[06x6spdGTO]

i took out the Dyno Jet springs and needles. and replaced them with Stock Springs and needles. how do you adjust the height? with the small washers on the back side of the needles?

 

[lankeeyankee]

i took out the Dyno Jet springs and needles. and replaced them with Stock Springs and needles. how do you adjust the height? with the small washers on the back side of the needles?

I would run the dynojet needles start off with the middle clip
Run your stock springs and tell me what you got from there
What main jets are you running are they dynojet mains or mikuni mains

 

[shawn kloker]

I think that you are sucking air somewhere.Something is leaking.

Did you make sure one of your needle jet nozzles is not loose and falling into the carb.Mine did this not long ago.I had to tighten the screw in the bowl that holds it in.

 

[Thevmaxrider]

You can play around with PAJ all day long and its NOT going to fix mid range problems PAJ are for idle up to 2K
Your running rich springs are to weak or your slides are moving to quickly
Lower your needles increase spring pressure RESYNCH carbs

I respectfully disagree here. The PAJ's behind the diaphram will affect the mid range, that is why Dynojet tells you to change them to a smaller size when putting their kit in because their needles are more agressive than stock. Could also be that his carbs have some schmutz in them and need a good cleaning with the shotgun or peashooter technique. Trying to get his carbs back as close to stock as possible to set a baseline. We all know that the bike will run stock. Problem is that the DJ Stage 1 kit is a complete POS and this gent is suffering through what a LOT of folks have with this kit. Get back to stock, clean the carbs, re-synch, and ride the bike. Of course this is just my opinion..... and only really matters to me.

 

[06x6spdGTO]

the maxrider. i need to talk to ya on the phone sometime again. so i can figure this situation out on taking the carbs off.

 

[maleko89]

Pilot screws, along with any of the pilot jets...whatever air or fuel have an affect up to 5000 rpms.

Keep your stock needles in and stock size springs. Check your mains and make sure no bigger than 152.5.

 

[maleko89]

Have you tested your ignition to rule that out as a problem? Spark plug boots tight and wires tight in the coils?

 

[06x6spdGTO]

is there any way to check the mains without pulling the carbs? if not what is the best way to do it? (does anyone have a picture guide like i made)

as for ignition ive checked the spark plug wires on both end and they are fine.

 

[maleko89]

No, they need to be removed from the boots.

Hopefully I'll take the time tomorrow to take some pics. I've been meaning to do that but with a 5 month kid plans change.

 

[lankeeyankee]

I respectfully disagree here. The PAJ's behind the diaphram will affect the mid range, that is why Dynojet tells you to change them to a smaller size when putting their kit in because their needles are more agressive than stock. Could also be that his carbs have some schmutz in them and need a good cleaning with the shotgun or peashooter technique. Trying to get his carbs back as close to stock as possible to set a baseline. We all know that the bike will run stock. Problem is that the DJ Stage 1 kit is a complete POS and this gent is suffering through what a LOT of folks have with this kit. Get back to stock, clean the carbs, re-synch, and ride the bike. Of course this is just my opinion..... and only really matters to me.

Ok first off read his orginal problem as he quoted in the first post

"I am noobie here and i had a couple small questions. First off when i quickly go to WOT on my Max it has a slight pause and kind of a shudder then it finally starts to rapup and pull hard"
This is not a PAJ problem. If you understand carburetion on vac slides with mikuni carbs. Here is a link to help you understand.
http://www.hondanighthawks.net/carb14.htm

As stated in the link "The pilot jet is the part which supplies most of the fuel at low throttle openings. It has a small hole in it which restricts fuel flow though it. Both the pilot air screw and pilot jet affects carburetion from idle to around 1/4 throttle"

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Ok first off read his orginal problem as he quoted in the first post

"I am noobie here and i had a couple small questions. First off when i quickly go to WOT on my Max it has a slight pause and kind of a shudder then it finally starts to rapup and pull hard"
This is not a PAJ problem. If you understand carburetion on vac slides with mikuni carbs. Here is a link to help you understand.
http://www.hondanighthawks.net/carb14.htm

As stated in the link "The pilot jet is the part which supplies most of the fuel at low throttle openings. It has a small hole in it which restricts fuel flow though it. Both the pilot air screw and pilot jet affects carburetion from idle to around 1/4 throttle"

Ok, now let me explain the 3 phases of these carbs to you..... oh yeah here is a link if you have any questions.....

http://vmaxoutlaw.com/tech/cv_carb_tuning.htm

What I am telling him to do is get the bike back to STOCK where it will run. Changing the PAJ's back to stock is a start. He should take ALL of the crap from that DJ kit and throw it in the trash where it belongs. The reason I didn't tell him to dive right in and change the mains out is that he told me the PAJ sizes and I advised him to get stock ones put in. His bike is acting up right at the point where the needles are close to fully withdrawn, but cleans up when running on the mains. Now we are to the point where we need to find out what mains are in the bike and go from there. Without a baseline you are pissing in the wind and can spend hours of hit and miss to attempt to get this right. Of course again, this is what I would do and that is all I can advise. This advice does come from experience though as I went through this EXACT problem with the same EXACT jet kit and did EXACLTY what I am advising him to do, only difference is I knew what was done to the bike, he bought it this way.

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Ok, first off I must apologize to Lankey. I understand what you are saying, its just I have been down this road once and know where to head with this now. Of course I could have put it better. The great thing about these forums is that you can get multiple opinions and not all are going to be in agreement. I was going to delete my post or edit it, but I figured if I post it, then I must deal with the consequences. Lets assist with getting this bike running properly then he can fine tune from there.

 

[lankeeyankee]

I dont know why you say the dynojet stage 1 is a piece of shit. I installed mine 5 yrs ago, yeah I had some issues to tune in but thats what jet kits are about.
The biggest thing is to just use the adjustable needles and main jets. All my other jets are stock along with the slides. I think my bike is tuned very well since I am running 100-101 in the eight mile and have no street riding issues.
I agree put everything back to stock. It doesnt seem that he is very familiar with the VMAX carbs to start, for all we know he could have the wrong configuration with his needles and how to properly install em.
What he needs to do is. put the stock PAJ's back in. If he is running dynojet needles start out on the 3rd notch, install the Dynojet Mains starting with 165 Marked DJ165 on the mainjets. Epoxy the slides if he drilled the hole out bigger and drill it back to stock diameter, put stock springs back in. place the Y back on the airbox if its removed. And he needs to get a factory picture diaghram of the carbs and double check his work and check it again making sure he didnt install something incorrectly. Once this is all done, ride the bike and post any new issues, until than i think he inducing new problems and we are going around in circles.

 

[maleko89]

DJ stage 1 isn't junk, it just doens't work too well with stock headers and Supertrapps. I agree with Jim, get it back to stock and it'll run much better.

 

[Thevmaxrider]

The problem with the Stage 1 kit is that it is too much of a hodge podge compromise of parts. The jet sizes provided are just about the same size as stock, unless you use the 150's as mains which worked quite well in mine with stock needles and springs, the needle is a lot more aggressive than stock, and the spring is considerable weaker than stock (needles withdraw faster). As the Max is rich from the factory, and even richer with the Supertrapps on, he needs to go smaller on the mains and get less fuel dumped into the carbs. This exactly the opposite of what the more aggressive needles are going to accomplish in the mid range where his problem lies. I live at about the same elevation and finally settled on 147.5 MK mains, stock needles/springs/PAJ's (DJ Stage one kit tells you to change to a DJ150 in the PAJ#2 spot which is in between a 147.5 & 150 MK jet so considerably smaller than stock size of 170 MK) with an aftermarket exhaust. Dynojet told me I needed their DJ170 mains (just bigger than 155 MK mains) with the DJ150's in the PAJ#2 spot. Tried that and bike puked, spit, sputtered, and would all but die in the mid-range. Put in the DJ160 mains, same result. Put stock PAJ's back in, bike get significantly better, but still had a bad hesitation at ~6k rpm. Put DJ150 mains in, stock needles/springs, viola bike was back to running really well, then took to a dyno and was still slightly rich so landed on the 147.5 MK mains. Now of course I have a new engine and Sean's kit that has required zero adjustment since I got it in the bike.

 

[shawn kloker]

is there any way to check the mains without pulling the carbs? if not what is the best way to do it? (does anyone have a picture guide like i made)

as for ignition ive checked the spark plug wires on both end and they are fine.

Is there any chance of getting this bike to Mark in Omaha?

 

[113s&s]

dont know what stock jetting is and dont care... with 3000 miles inside of pipes are clean no black at all ....with a finger rub ,finger is clean...so to me stock does not seem rich on the mains.... im not talkinfg to anyone im just talkig :icon_rolleyes: