Best fix for o-ring problem?

[SpecOps13]

Originally Posted By RaWarrior: I've been away from the bike so long I don't remember...do you have to pull the front headpipes to get the oil pan off? Swapping in the kawi o-ring is on my spring to-do list.


No Stupid Questions Exist. If they did, I'm an Idiot....:rofl_200:

Answer, Yes you need to remove the front head pipes... Good Luck with the install. PM me if you run into trouble....

 

[gamorg02]

yea you do ryan. its a pita. get some gasket remover too

i can send you one of the viton rings I have incase the kawi ring doesn't work. pm me your addr if you want one.

 

[SpecOps13]

Garrett: I guess he should PM you if he has any trouble with the O-Ring fit. You definitely got too much experience with that.... I'm happy you found a solution...:biglaugh:

Dave in Florida

 

[gamorg02]

yea i have some experience. hahahaha

 

[RaWarrior]

Cool thanks Garrett. What's the difference with the viton ring as opposed to the kawi part, is there some reason the kawi one wouldn't fit?

Does anyone know what the actual part # is for the kawasaki o-ring?

I was also going to install the COO oil pressure kit before, to get some "before and after" pressure readings, see how much a popped ring actually affects things. I don't know if mine is popped, but from the sound of it they pretty much all do it. Seem to remember there was a subaru part # for a crush gasket that sealed the oil pressure port as well.

 

[SpecOps13]

92055-1147 Kawi Part Number.. It's Oval Shaped, Weird.. Garrett is the first I had heard of having trouble with it... It should have been my luck to have difficulty too but I've done 2 with No Problemo...


My 94 was popped out the 89 wasn't. That seemed backwards looking at the general condition of the 2 bikes..

 

[gamorg02]

Cool thanks Garrett. What's the difference with the viton ring as opposed to the kawi part, is there some reason the kawi one wouldn't fit?

Does anyone know what the actual part # is for the kawasaki o-ring?

I was also going to install the COO oil pressure kit before, to get some "before and after" pressure readings, see how much a popped ring actually affects things. I don't know if mine is popped, but from the sound of it they pretty much all do it. Seem to remember there was a subaru part # for a crush gasket that sealed the oil pressure port as well.

i know at least one other person who couldn't get the kawi o-ring on and had to bolt his oil pan back on with a COO stopper so that it would re-seat, which seemed like way too much pressure and shaved some material off the o-ring.

the viton o-ring has a slightly smaller OD so it will go in. i still had to use a little bottle jack to pop it in as i couldn't get a good swing under the bike with the clearance. its also circular not oval.

throughout all this i also got a COO stopper kit because while i was there i might as well never allow the elbow to pop down, replacing the oem bumper which could compress over time.

my guess, which is a guess, is that the later model vmax's had the 'fix' which was a better elbow which was recessed more. maybe at that point they machined the openings a tad smaller so the o-ring was less likely to slide out?

i also should still have some of those subaru washers, i can check tomorrow. PM me to remind me and i'll look. i'll send both if you want 'em, and i have them, just send me the addr.

if i don't have one try searching coprunners started threads he should have the p/n there, its also the 'main drain plug' washer, so common the fact the first time i called to ask for one they had 1800 in stock at the local dealer!

 

[Lauermichel]

Hi,
I still have a design drawing for the attachment of the elbow.
With us, he hest lifesaver.

Many greetings from Germany Micha

Pardon my English is not so good:confused2:




Or here the oil pan Enlarge
http://www.schwabenmax.de/Navigation/Hauptnavigation Yamaha VMax Deutsch.htm

 

[RaWarrior]

Should get all this sorted out this weekend. Garret's sending me a replacement o-ring, Sean is sending me a new gasket and bypass washer, and I ordered a handlebar mount pressure gauge from COO today.

I'll install the gauge first, get some readings, then drop the pan and fix the o-ring(I guess I have no way of knowing if it's popped or not, but seems like it's exceedingly common). Then see how much a popped o-ring actually affects pressure...stay tuned for a write-up on this.

 

[SpecOps13]

My 94 showed some gain in pressure. Even with the O-Ring popped, the pump could still reach bypass pressure. It was just at a thousand more rpm than with an O-Ring in place. I believe as Sean has said, an engine that's not abused will survive with an O-Ring that is partially popped out. An engine that is run to the limits may not. Our oil pumps are high volume, which helps...

It will be interesting to see your results too....

Good Luck,

 

[RaWarrior]

Well, here's the update...I'm not sure I really have any problem. In fact, it seems I have better pressure than most.

I installed Tom's pressure gauge which was a snap. It fits with the flyscreen no problem(with the Python handlebar). For the oil galley, I used a subaru crush washer # 11126aa000, with the ridged crushable side against the adapter, the flat side toward the bike. I also generously used thread tape and seated it home. I don't know the torque, but you can feel it get a bit harder as the washer touches, and another half turn or so until it really doesn't want to go any farther so I stopped. Screwed in the brass elbow(mine already had thread tape on it) and got it pointing straight forward when tight. Clamp the gauge to the handlebar, ziptie the line out of the way, done.

Cold start, it goes right up to 60 where I presume the bypass opens. After about a minute it settled down to 20psi idle at 120* coolant temp. After a while, it leveled out at 12psi and didn't go any lower as temp rose , idling at 1000rpm. It rises about 10-12psi per 1000RPM and when hot peaks at around 58psi @5000rpm.

This is without having dropped the pan. I have no idea if the o-ring is "popped" or not, but after hearing lots of people reporting 2-3 psi at idle this seems fine.

So either I have a really good oil pump, or a p/o did some sort of upgrade. I'm the third owner, and the person I bought it from mentioned nothing about any oiling upgrades, though most of the mods on the bike the first original owner did, so who knows.

At this point I don't see a ton of reason to pull the exhaust and drop the pan when the pressure is perfectly fine. If the pressure randomly tanks one day I'll be able to see it with the gauge.

 

[gamorg02]

Well, here's the update...I'm not sure I really have any problem. In fact, it seems I have better pressure than most.

I installed Tom's pressure gauge which was a snap. It fits with the flyscreen no problem(with the Python handlebar). For the oil galley, I used a subaru crush washer # 11126aa000, with the ridged crushable side against the adapter, the flat side toward the bike. I also generously used thread tape and seated it home. I don't know the torque, but you can feel it get a bit harder as the washer touches, and another half turn or so until it really doesn't want to go any farther so I stopped. Screwed in the brass elbow(mine already had thread tape on it) and got it pointing straight forward when tight. Clamp the gauge to the handlebar, ziptie the line out of the way, done.

Cold start, it goes right up to 60 where I presume the bypass opens. After about a minute it settled down to 20psi idle at 120* coolant temp. After a while, it leveled out at 12psi and didn't go any lower as temp rose , idling at 1000rpm. It rises about 10-12psi per 1000RPM and when hot peaks at around 58psi @5000rpm.

This is without having dropped the pan. I have no idea if the o-ring is "popped" or not, but after hearing lots of people reporting 2-3 psi at idle this seems fine.

So either I have a really good oil pump, or a p/o did some sort of upgrade. I'm the third owner, and the person I bought it from mentioned nothing about any oiling upgrades, though most of the mods on the bike the first original owner did, so who knows.

At this point I don't see a ton of reason to pull the exhaust and drop the pan when the pressure is perfectly fine. If the pressure randomly tanks one day I'll be able to see it with the gauge.

that was my take. mine ended up dropping by 20% randomly, the o-ring wasn't popped but it made me feel better.

that is a really high idle, how long did u let it warm up. i bet a 30 minute ride and you'd notice lower pressures but just a guess.

 

[SpecOps13]

I agree, 12 psi at idle is fantastic if it stays there. Mine stays high for a while but once everything gets good and warm, drops to 2-3 at idle....
I'm running Rotella T, Non Symthetic. Other oils may act differently...

 

[RaWarrior]

It never goes much lower. Tuesday I rode to schenectady(~40min) to bring the bike to PCW. On the highway the temp peaked at about 140 since the ambient was like 45. In the city though at lights, it rose up to about 190....as high as I usually let it before turning the fan on. Even at 190*, idling, I still had 10-12 psi.

Sounds good to me.

 

[SpecOps13]

That's an oil pressure worth bragging about.....
Dave

 

[gamorg02]

It never goes much lower. Tuesday I rode to schenectady(~40min) to bring the bike to PCW. On the highway the temp peaked at about 140 since the ambient was like 45. In the city though at lights, it rose up to about 190....as high as I usually let it before turning the fan on. Even at 190*, idling, I still had 10-12 psi.

Sounds good to me.

if it aint broke don't fucking fix it.

haha i bet u have something in there, i've never heard of idle pressure over like 5 psi. how fresh is your oil?

why did the bike goto PCW?

That's an oil pressure worth bragging about.....
Dave

+1

 

[RaWarrior]

Not super fresh, changed it like half way through last year. Has maybe 3-4k on it, Mobil 1 4T full syn. It's still pretty light tan in the sight glass though.

PCW is making my high speed wobble go bye-bye. New head bearings, lowering blocks, gonna toss the ebay specials and put stock rear shocks on. Should have it back Friday.

I saw Twistedmax's bike in the parking lot out front......

 

[gamorg02]

Not super fresh, changed it like half way through last year. Has maybe 3-4k on it, Mobil 1 4T full syn. It's still pretty light tan in the sight glass though.

PCW is making my high speed wobble go bye-bye. New head bearings, lowering blocks, gonna toss the ebay specials and put stock rear shocks on. Should have it back Friday.

I saw Twistedmax's bike in the parking lot out front......

with how much u do on the bike yourself i'm surprised you're bringing it to PCW. are they doing progressive springs? I sure would.

 

[RaWarrior]

This is the first time the Max has been to a shop...done everything previously myself. Then again, "everything else" has been pretty much bolt-on or wiring jobs, nothing too heavy duty. It's not a Ducati, being a factory tech is not required for ownership lol

I just don't have the tools/shop/experience to feel comfortable tearing the front of the bike off and trying to get the bearing races out. I don't have a welder, or a dremel, or a lift, or anything to prop the bike up with. I know I'd get into it and be running to the local independent rip-off hardware store every 5 minutes and probably screw something up. I know next to nothing about motorcycle handling dynamics, and they do, so I figured I'd let them set up the suspension for me. Bought a Vmax to go fast and it's wiggly front end won't let me. Then my asshole friend with the M109 passes me because I have to back off or probably get a tank slapper and that giant yacht is steady as a rock no matter what.

I'm pretty sure it already has progressive fork springs. The p/o said he installed them, and I really have no reason to believe he BSed me about it. Kind of odd he installed frame braces, billet fork brace, progressive springs, then cheaped out with the rear shocks. We talked a bit about the rear shocks and the "good" progressives were $600....he said the cheaper versions aren't a whole lot better from good condition stockers. Right off the bat he said it looked like my bike sat a bit lower in the rear than normal and that would definitely contribute to iffy stability. Noticed one fork seal was starting to weep also, said they'd take care of that as well. Something else I have no idea how to do.

All in all one of those things where I'll feel more comfortable letting someone with a lot of experience set things up, and the price for them to do it is reasonable. I want a safe and sound machine I can count on when I'm in hooligus maximus riding mode lol

 

[gamorg02]

This is the first time the Max has been to a shop...done everything previously myself. Then again, "everything else" has been pretty much bolt-on or wiring jobs, nothing too heavy duty. It's not a Ducati, being a factory tech is not required for ownership lol

I just don't have the tools/shop/experience to feel comfortable tearing the front of the bike off and trying to get the bearing races out. I don't have a welder, or a dremel, or a lift, or anything to prop the bike up with. I know I'd get into it and be running to the local independent rip-off hardware store every 5 minutes and probably screw something up. I know next to nothing about motorcycle handling dynamics, and they do, so I figured I'd let them set up the suspension for me. Bought a Vmax to go fast and it's wiggly front end won't let me. Then my asshole friend with the M109 passes me because I have to back off or probably get a tank slapper and that giant yacht is steady as a rock no matter what.

I'm pretty sure it already has progressive fork springs. The p/o said he installed them, and I really have no reason to believe he BSed me about it. Kind of odd he installed frame braces, billet fork brace, progressive springs, then cheaped out with the rear shocks. We talked a bit about the rear shocks and the "good" progressives were $600....he said the cheaper versions aren't a whole lot better from good condition stockers. Right off the bat he said it looked like my bike sat a bit lower in the rear than normal and that would definitely contribute to iffy stability. Noticed one fork seal was starting to weep also, said they'd take care of that as well. Something else I have no idea how to do.

All in all one of those things where I'll feel more comfortable letting someone with a lot of experience set things up, and the price for them to do it is reasonable. I want a safe and sound machine I can count on when I'm in hooligus maximus riding mode lol

you won't hear any arguments from me my friend, just wondering on why this time. i like your logic.