bolt on chain conversion kit

[xschop]

I would never cut a hardened shaft and resplice it unless I knew 100% what the base metal was. I looked into this before along time ago when I wanted to put on the XS750/850 Final drive (2.9) to the XS11 (3.3) for better driveability....Long story short, I discovered a method of shimming the stronger XS11 shaft aft towards the XS750 pinion coupler splines of the FD (mated to XS11 swingarm) and had a simple bolt on FD without comprimising the shaft.....

Anyways don't cut on a shaft unless you are a metalurgist or don't mind fixing the shaft over and over.....
The bevel gear has to go no matter what to install a 1-off custom sprocket adapter over those splines....judging by the stock bevel gear design, a strong enough piece can be machined and case hardened to go right throgh the stock outer bearing I.D. and over the middle drive shaft O.D. once that bevel gear is history...
I can even cryotreat the part. I do this to all my expensive cutting tools and they last 3-4 times as long.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

I would never cut a hardened shaft and resplice it unless I knew 100% what the base metal was. I looked into this before along time ago when I wanted to put on the XS750/850 Final drive (2.9) to the XS11 (3.3) for better driveability....Long story short, I discovered a method of shimming the stronger XS11 shaft aft towards the XS750 pinion coupler splines of the FD (mated to XS11 swingarm) and had a simple bolt on FD without comprimising the shaft.....

Anyways don't cut on a shaft unless you are a metalurgist or don't mind fixing the shaft over and over.....
The bevel gear has to go no matter what to install a 1-off custom sprocket adapter over those splines....judging by the stock bevel gear design, a strong enough piece can be machined and case hardened to go right throgh the stock outer bearing I.D. and over the middle drive shaft O.D. once that bevel gear is history...
I can even cryotreat the part. I do this to all my expensive cutting tools and they last 3-4 times as long.

Lots of I's in those paragraphs, guess you don't need any help from us. Sooo... lets see what you come up with. The adapter is pretty straight forward. Keep in mind that with the split case design, the sprocket is welded to the machined middle gear and I've put some serious horsepower to that setup and have never had a problem. For future reference if you are unsure of the parent metals that you will be welding, use a high nickel stainless rod, preheat the materials and cool very slowly, preferably in an oven. That being said Seans version will be fine, of course a one piece design would be better. Hey if it breaks... we'll fix it. That's what R&D is all about.

 

[xschop]

Sorry, Wasn't trying to blow my own horn. Just speaking from experience. There was a guy a while back that kept snapping a modded 2.5" pinion shaft in a custom 4X4. After 4 trips to the shop, he finally gave in and had a 1 -off piece done and heat treated. he hasn't been back to the shop yet.... he spent 4 times what it would have cost him originally if he did it right the first time....
Customer's always right though......

Actually, I would be honored to work with you guys on this. I figure if the final product can withstand that set-up you've got, then the design is right.
You guys are definitely serious about these bikes for sure.....
I'm finishing up another pet project (designed a universal Chevy V8 LS1/LT1/SBC conversion kit for the Porsche 944) and will dig into this in 2-3 weeks from now. I'm not sure if I can get the outer cover from this spare set of cases and will probably take you guys up on some parts loan for the project...

 

[TURBOVMAX]

I apologize myself! Was early in the morning as you can see, obvoiusly your a very talented guy. Anything I can do to help... feel free to ask. Gotta a big project on my hands right now as well. Why do we do this to ourselves?:ummm: The Porche project sounds like a good one!

 

[xschop]

Got a set of empty cases and the side cover too finally in hand!!! Oh yeah, got the entire middle drive with gears and all to start this party off right..... I'm going to be mulling over everything to see what would be the best set-up. Going to see what it would take to keep the stock oil type roller ball bearing because there will be NO cutting of the case in this design. You guys say there is an oil tube in the factory setup on this outter bearing?

Looks like the rear swap cover is going to be a no brainer......

Decisions decisions.....XS sprockets

or.......Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda sprockets?????? Input welcome here....

 

[one2dmax]

The oiling tube bolts to the block in that gear cavity and is routed to spray into a passage in the block that runs to that bearing. Open the case up and you should see it. our conversion doesn't cut the case either and uses FZR1000 support bearigns and sprockets.

Sean

 

[xschop]

I will be really getting into the meat of this next week. I am going to the Drag Boat Races in OKC today. FZR1000 huh? I looked for an hour or so on the web at different sprocket spline dimension/diagrams. My design will use a 1-off custom shaft extension that has an oil seal on the custom outer cover. I will do my best to reuse the same oil roller type bearing. I used sealed/shielded bearings for the XS1100 chaindrive conversion and after 3000 miles, they are in perfect shape. The reason that the factory has the oil-type bearings is they last alot longer in the oil. And this is true because of the extreme vector forces put on it because of the 90* right angle bevel gear. Getting rid of that gear alleviates all that extra stress on the bearing, warranting the option to run a sealed bearing. It is a viable option here, because the outer bearing is easily accessible.......Rob

 

[Birdoprey]

If your worried about running a sealed bearing, why not run a sealed ceramic bearing? They last 5 times longer than the std bearings and cut down on friction as an added bonus.

 

[xschop]

That's exactly what I had planned. I have a set of Ceramic on hand for the 11. But after changing the front sprocket up another size last weekend, I pulled the inner and outer bearing and they are in XS'lent shape.
I don't see a diagram about an oil tube. I will seperate the cases here tomorrow and take a look. Looks like I will be making some stainless steel oil fill caps for the Max as well, they have the same thread dia/pitch as the XS.:eusa_dance:

 

[hubeerjw]

Sorry I haven't gotten any pics up sooner and haven't been a part of this much yet. Anyway, here are a few pics of the parts Sean Morley sent me. I can send them on to anyone that wants to take this to the next level (as long as Sean is o.k. with me sending out his parts)... I'm running out of time. Here you can see the oil tube (modified to fit into the aluminum bearing collar. The only other major modification is to the trans shaft... a little bit need to be removed for the sprocket shaft to fit over it. I'll try to chime in a little more here in the near future.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Good deal Jeff... gets a little lonely in this back room (Fabrication, CNC & Projects) of the forum. Any help in any form is appreciated I'm sure.

 

[xschop]

That scenario is what I have in mind, Just a 1-off piece that adapts to the factory middle shaft, goes thru the stick outer bearing ID and has a sprocket carrier.
I took pics after my recent R&R of my XS chaindrive. After roughly 2500 miles there is no play/looseness in the sealed bearings. I was surprised of how little wear was on the 13T....

I stuck on a 14T and now I'm back to 38-40 MPGs...

The splines are as new as when I installed it....

I had previously ground out about 3mm of the case near the sprocket for the 14T on Recommendation from a guy that had a homemade Chaindrive contraption.....Judging by the clearance I think a 15T is not a problem...

After swapping sprockets a few times, the single sided swingarm makes thing a whole lot easier. In the process, I realized that when I build a chain drive Max, putting the chain right outside the frame would literally only take a couple of minutes to change the front/rear sprockets and chain when doing a Single Sided Swingarm. The front sprocket removes with one nut and the rear sprocket with 6 locknuts and nothing is in the way....
I took a pic of what I was talking about earlier. When the chain rides outside the Vmax frame, a simple hub spacer (about 2.5 - 3") is all that is needed. It also sets up the rear swingarm area for a weld-on tab to stick on an R1 monoshock. I did that mod to an XS11 and alot of others have followed. For 35-50 bucks on Ebay, that is one badass mod...4 way adjustable with all the bells and whistles. Even the stock spring is perfect just to run one on a single side...
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13531&highlight=monoshock
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21797&highlight=shock

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Excellent work! Makes me want to run out and buy an XS.... just what I need another project.

 

[sandy klock]

Gary;
Are you blowing me off? It appears you forgot about me. OK if you did. Just wish you didnt string me along, ie waste my time. sandy

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Sandy

I'm not blowing you off. I simply haven't had time to take the pictures of the chain drive conversion on my bike. If you really want to tackle the job of doing a conventional machine the cases type conversion on your own. This thread or one you start on your own would be a good place to start... I supplied you with the information I could with the parts I had disassembled from a previous conversion. Maybe Sean would be willing to measure and give you the information as he regularly works with the motor internals. Nobody has ever givin me any dimensional info for anything for free... so good luck with that. In any case it's better to field your questions on the forum.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Sandy,

I did a search on chain drive and found you had already posted http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=7262&highlight=chain+drive and Sean had already put pictures up for you. I don't know how much more I can do for you. My question for you is... who's wasting who's time?

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

ok guys... let kiss and make up. This thread is WAY TO GOOD to go down in flames! LOL

Im sure the written word looks worse than what was intended.

Lets keep her goin here for the silent majority!!!

cheers to BOTH of you for you informative posts and development process.

 

[satariel666]

Gary;
Are you blowing me off? It appears you forgot about me. OK if you did. Just wish you didnt string me along, ie waste my time. sandy

That was unkind buddy, really...

 

[TURBOVMAX]

ok guys... let kiss and make up. This thread is WAY TO GOOD to go down in flames! LOL

Im sure the written word looks worse than what was intended.

Lets keep her goin here for the silent majority!!!

cheers to BOTH of you for you informative posts and development process.

Well said and I agree! Way off topic! I intend to be the first to purchase xschop's chain drive conversion. Judging from his previous works... he's spot on.

 

[TURBOVMAX]

Ok.... here's some digits on the shift shaft side cover. xschop you may find this useful when you layout your housing. The ball bearing listed on the lower right is to replace the plain bearing stock one. Good to do if your planning on running an air shifter (less friction) Or just good to do anyway as it is more accurate. This was done using a CMM so the numbers are good. May save you some time.