March Motor Cyclist Magizine V-Max vs B-King

[cyclecog]

I remember reading somewhere quite a while back that the final prototype engine for the Max was making close to 300hp on the test dyno. They also eluded to the fact that it would never see production at those numbers for various reasons. Assuming this is indeed true, thats one impressive mill and should handle mods quite well.

This is true, they originally produced a bike with those kind of numbers (what I read they didn't list the exact numbers) decided it was too much of an unruly monster, described it as "Frankenstein", I guess hey were concerned about liability?? In addition, they felt like the frame needed would have proven too heavy. However, I would just like to say; thanks Yamaha for producing the bike you did! This new Maximum is quite a leap forward, and I believe you have a sturdy platform to turn it into a reliable "monster" if you so desire. And let me add, no inline four will ever have the visceral appeal that this V-4 has, end of story!

 

[dannymax]

And let me add, no inline four will ever have the visceral appeal that this V-4 has, end of story!

And there you have it! AFAIC a few 1/10ths here or there don't mean anything to me, I'll take the '09 Max, at the higher price.....anyday!!!
Or, as a friend of mine said, "I'd rather push around an empty v max frame than ride that ugly f'in b king!"
You know, he's got a point!!

 

[QuarterHorse]

(classy signature there....)

I dont thing i was one of those that flamed you, but i did point out the stupidity of developing a bike like the vmax (a drag bike) and it not being fastest. Im not eating humble pie OR you ass, but i will say i am supremely disappointed about all this.... if that makes you happy. I think its a big miss to develop something like this and not have the performance to back it up.
That said, i think there is more to the story... Vmax Guru has developed some tuning to get 194RWHP from Vmax and i belive we are missing the ram air effect on the dyno as well.... But ya stock to stock it doesnt look good.
unless the whole point was to target the HD Destroyer or go after the crusier class i just dont see the point of opening yourself up for such embarasment... id still buy one becuase on the street its a different game than the strip.....but hey, yamaha has all those videos of the max at the strip right?

I'm glad you like my sig on this forum, you can tell my reading it I value the opinion of others about it.....

You pretty much hit my disappointment with the bike to a tee. If I had the coin laying around to snag one up, I'm sure I would. I just don't get all the hype for it to fall short. Somebody at Ma' Yamaha dropped the ball IMO.

This being said a THOUSAND times over again, I didn't buy my first VMax to go drag racing and I won't buy the 2nd Gen for that reason either.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I'm glad you like my sig on this forum, you can tell my reading it I value the opinion of others about it.....

You pretty much hit my disappointment with the bike to a tee. If I had the coin laying around to snag one up, I'm sure I would. I just don't get all the hype for it to fall short. Somebody at Ma' Yamaha dropped the ball IMO.

This being said a THOUSAND times over again, I didn't buy my first VMax to go drag racing and I won't buy the 2nd Gen for that reason either.

I do agree they dropped the ball, hate to admit it...But it's true...:bang head:


But I test drove one at the Houston IMS show and it's the fastest bike to 60mph I've ever ridden on the street, I was doing rolling 2nd gear tire spins initiated at 50mph, the torque IS truly incredible...it sucks it weighs what it does, although I will say that low speed and just sitting on it it feels lighter than my 600lbs bike.....by a whole lot....not sure how they did that but it doesn't feel like a 680lb bike....

 

[cyclecog]

I do agree they dropped the ball, hate to admit it...But it's true...:bang head:


But I test drove one at the Houston IMS show and it's the fastest bike to 60mph I've ever ridden on the street, I was doing rolling 2nd gear tire spins initiated at 50mph, the torque IS truly incredible...it sucks it weighs what it does, although I will say that low speed and just sitting on it it feels lighter than my 600lbs bike.....by a whole lot....not sure how they did that but it doesn't feel like a 680lb bike....

Funny, how can you say, "they dropped the ball" when you go on to say all that other great stuff about it?? You expressed my sentiments exactly; never rode a more thrilling bike, and I have ridden just about all of them! Just because it does not go 180 MPH and gets beat a 10th or so in the quarter by a 'Busa, NOT a concern for the kind of street riding I do!

 

[HuecoDoc]

There are a couple of things that stand out in that article. The person that thinks the Vmax would be a half-second faster in the quarter mile also thinks that the B-King would be a half-second faster and still come out ahead.

BUT, they also say that the Vmax should be launched around 2500 RPM and shifted around 6500 (early in first to maintain 2nd gear traction), compared to launching the B-King from 5000.

That's quite a (real) difference, shifting the Vmax at a similar rpm to where you would launch the B-king! That means a subtle 2000 rpm VMax launch on any non-track/non-VHF-compound concrete. It's a useful powerband under any circumstance, even compared to the B-king which (I think) is a tourquier version of the Hayabusa. Like they say, the B-King's power is "out of reach on the street, a downshift and a few thousand rpm upstream." To me, that's pretty much how other bikes stack up against the Vmax. That's why I paid to get it early and this isn't buyer's remorse.

 

[Buster Hymen]

There are a couple of things that stand out in that article. The person that thinks the Vmax would be a half-second faster in the quarter mile also thinks that the B-King would be a half-second faster and still come out ahead.

BUT, they also say that the Vmax should be launched around 2500 RPM and shifted around 6500 (early in first to maintain 2nd gear traction), compared to launching the B-King from 5000.

That's quite a (real) difference, shifting the Vmax at a similar rpm to where you would launch the B-king! That means a subtle 2000 rpm VMax launch on any non-track/non-VHF-compound concrete. It's a useful powerband under any circumstance, even compared to the B-king which (I think) is a tourquier version of the Hayabusa. Like they say, the B-King's power is "out of reach on the street, a downshift and a few thousand rpm upstream." To me, that's pretty much how other bikes stack up against the Vmax. That's why I paid to get it early and this isn't buyer's remorse.

Looking at a dyno of both bikes, those launch points you mention don't make any sense.

 

[113s&s]

dont think you launch any street bike at the track at peak power

 

[HuecoDoc]

Looking at a dyno of both bikes, those launch points you mention don't make any sense.

I'm probably not the one that should answer, but I guess most dyno graphs don't reflect overall gear ratios. They do if they map the power vs wheel speed instead of rpm. They don't illustrate where power overcomes traction either (or wheelies the bike) and that can only be discovered in motion. On bikes like the Busa they get better times by revving high into the powerband, but that's too high to quickly engage the clutch so they feather it through first.

disclaimer: my expertise is proportional to my post count

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Funny, how can you say, "they dropped the ball" when you go on to say all that other great stuff about it?? You expressed my sentiments exactly; never rode a more thrilling bike, and I have ridden just about all of them! Just because it does not go 180 MPH and gets beat a 10th or so in the quarter by a 'Busa, NOT a concern for the kind of street riding I do!

I 'effin love the new bike and would buy one in a heartbeat...

I say they dropped the ball for one reason only.....

When it was introduced it should have been, without a doubt, the fastest stock quarter mile bike on the street, period, no qualifications, no bullshit.....

It wasn't....

Early on, when the new Max was barely a myth and then become a rumour, growing by leaps and bounds over several years, expectations were very, very, high..

I think that most of us, certainly me anyway, Wanted the new Max to re-established itself into the exact same reputation the first one had..

This one may never do that...nor do I think it will practically become an urban legend like the Gen 1 did.

The Gen 1 ddin't get it's outrageous reputation for being the 3rd or 4th fastest quarter miler in '85

 

[cyclecog]

I 'effin love the new bike and would buy one in a heartbeat...

I say they dropped the ball for one reason only.....

When it was introduced it should have been, without a doubt, the fastest stock quarter mile bike on the street, period, no qualifications, no bullshit.....

It wasn't....

Early on, when the new Max was barely a myth and then become a rumour, growing by leaps and bounds over several years, expectations were very, very, high..

I think that most of us, certainly me anyway, Wanted the new Max to re-established itself into the exact same reputation the first one had..

This one may never do that...nor do I think it will practically become an urban legend like the Gen 1 did.

The Gen 1 ddin't get it's outrageous reputation for being the 3rd or 4th fastest quarter miler in '85

Then expectations were too high. 1985 was pre lay-down 'Busa supercharged bikes. No way a sit-up straight bike was ever going to come down with a top speed of 185 MPH! Yamaha could have dialed this bike to whatever they wanted to, made the determination not to do it. (legal concerns ??) With the weight of a blvd. bike like the Max no way it would "romp" on a lightweight sport bike in a quarter?? Of course not, however, put equal riders on a two block race (i.e. light to light) and I think a race is on brother! By the way I love your 'vote Obama get stuff", so true! May use that one with your permission.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Then expectations were too high. 1985 was pre lay-down 'Busa supercharged bikes. No way a sit-up straight bike was ever going to come down with a top speed of 185 MPH! Yamaha could have dialed this bike to whatever they wanted to, made the determination not to do it. (legal concerns ??) With the weight of a blvd. bike like the Max no way it would "romp" on a lightweight sport bike in a quarter?? Of course not, however, put equal riders on a two block race (i.e. light to light) and I think a race is on brother! By the way I love your 'vote Obama get stuff", so true! May use that one with your permission.

I disagree that expectations were too high because a heavyweight cruiser wasn't what this bike had to be, it's what they chose to make it....

I Do agree they could have made it as fast as they wanted to,

They could have made it as fast as they wanted to if they had abandoned the quasi-cruiser mode that it is...

And built an almost identical, as pleasing to the eye 200hp V4, Naked Sportbike with distinctive side scoops and weighing 520 or so like the Busa or ZX14.....

You don't need massive weight to make massive power manageable, they have electronics for that..

Basically they could have built this bike on 15/16 scale and pulled it off....It didn't have to be so heavy....

Hell, they could have said screw the torque, built a smaller, short stroke V4 that would rev 14 grand and ended up with a smaller, faster light weight package...Ducati has a 1000cc V4 that makes more HP than this engine, albiet less torque too....

But, they did what they did and we have what we have...

And I l love it ...


You may use the Obama thing, hell spread it around!

Rusty

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

Being upright has nothing to do with it boys... you can get your head down on the tank its not an issue. Yamaha could have made this a 9 second bike without making it look like a busa or zx14.

In fact im sure it will be soon... UFO has stripped one down by 100 pounds and claimed another 20hp by pipe and tune mods... Im not suggesting a modded bike be compared to stock busas...but it does clearly show what the bike COULD have been straight from the factory.

On another note, i suspect this bike will be easy to get big hp from and over time it will get a rep for being a bit of a closet sleeper.... maybe thats what yanaha always intended....

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

Funny, how can you say, "they dropped the ball" when you go on to say all that other great stuff about it?? You expressed my sentiments exactly; never rode a more thrilling bike, and I have ridden just about all of them! Just because it does not go 180 MPH and gets beat a 10th or so in the quarter by a 'Busa, NOT a concern for the kind of street riding I do!

your right...when we say dropped the ball we all mean going the extra yard and getting the credibility of being the fastest stock bike in the quarter.....

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

There are a couple of things that stand out in that article. The person that thinks the Vmax would be a half-second faster in the quarter mile also thinks that the B-King would be a half-second faster and still come out ahead.

BUT, they also say that the Vmax should be launched around 2500 RPM and shifted around 6500 (early in first to maintain 2nd gear traction), compared to launching the B-King from 5000.

That's quite a (real) difference, shifting the Vmax at a similar rpm to where you would launch the B-king! That means a subtle 2000 rpm VMax launch on any non-track/non-VHF-compound concrete. It's a useful powerband under any circumstance, even compared to the B-king which (I think) is a tourquier version of the Hayabusa. Like they say, the B-King's power is "out of reach on the street, a downshift and a few thousand rpm upstream." To me, that's pretty much how other bikes stack up against the Vmax. That's why I paid to get it early and this isn't buyer's remorse.

i fully get what your saying....now add sticky tire (same as on the busa or barfKing) and then what? a slightly harder launch and pretty much and improved ET, no? even with the weight penalty..

 

[RJ RJ RJ]

I 'effin love the new bike and would buy one in a heartbeat...

I say they dropped the ball for one reason only.....

When it was introduced it should have been, without a doubt, the fastest stock quarter mile bike on the street, period, no qualifications, no bullshit.....

It wasn't....

Early on, when the new Max was barely a myth and then become a rumour, growing by leaps and bounds over several years, expectations were very, very, high..

I think that most of us, certainly me anyway, Wanted the new Max to re-established itself into the exact same reputation the first one had..

This one may never do that...nor do I think it will practically become an urban legend like the Gen 1 did.

The Gen 1 ddin't get it's outrageous reputation for being the 3rd or 4th fastest quarter miler in '85

agree.... not to say they didnt make a fantastic bike...better than the original i every way.... its just that little nit picky item about the rep for being fastest....thats all.... its a form of droppin the ball....not totally forgetting where the ball game was...

 

[tahoe99]

No matter how hot a chick is clinging to that B-King or how fast it goes, looking at that bike still makes me want to hurl my lunch. :barf::barf::barf:uke:

You know there is an issue when all your friends say they wouldn't be caught dead riding that thing.

 

[Buster Hymen]

LOL... Rusty, what are you doing to your poor bike in your Avatar!?! :th_analprobestare:

 

[HuecoDoc]

LOL... Rusty, what are you doing to your poor bike in your Avatar!?! :th_analprobestare:

He's fisting it. It's routine maintenance. See post above for detailed procedure.

disclaimer: my expertise is directly proportional to my post count, which is now one more.

 

[cyclecog]

Being upright has nothing to do with it boys... you can get your head down on the tank its not an issue. Yamaha could have made this a 9 second bike without making it look like a busa or zx14.

In fact im sure it will be soon... UFO has stripped one down by 100 pounds and claimed another 20hp by pipe and tune mods... Im not suggesting a modded bike be compared to stock busas...but it does clearly show what the bike COULD have been straight from the factory.

On another note, i suspect this bike will be easy to get big hp from and over time it will get a rep for being a bit of a closet sleeper.... maybe thats what yanaha always intended....

Only reason I made the "sit up straight" comment is because that came straight from Yamaha! They felt like it was a problem, (ie lawyers involved) decided that 180 mph was too fast for a cruiser style bike. I agree you can get down and still race! Having said that, I posted earlier that I believe this is a sturdy platform that can be modified to god knows what! Mid "8s", yes sir I think so! Also, again I say; thanks Yamaha for building this fantastic bike with a two year warranty "right out of the box"! If you want to race in the 1/4 mile and lay waste with a modified 09 Max, I think you have the "tool" to work with!:eusa_dance: