Race Fuel Vs. Pump Gas

[COP RUNNER]

MY THREAD IS ABOUT THE ADDITIVES, NOT SO MUCH THE OCTANE, IF EVERYONE SAYS PUMP GAS IS FINE , WHY IS EVERYONE ADDING SEA FOAM & OTHER THINGS ? I'M AN AUTO MECHANIC, 27 YEARS, & TAKE ALL THE CLASSES, EXCEPT SPELLING, "LOL" & HAVE ALL THE EQUIPMENT, EVERY DAY THERES MORE TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETINS OUT TO RE FLASH CARS COMPUTERS, FROM 1996 TO BRAND NEW ,BECAUSE OF DRIVE ABILITY PROBLEMS CAUSED FROM POOR FUEL QUALITY & VOLATILITY, 10-15 YEARS AGO ,WHEN IN THE WINTER THEY STARTED USING OXYGENATED GAS, EVERYONE IN NEW JERSEY WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE DROP IN FUEL MILEAGE, AND ROUGH IDLE !!! & IT VAPOR LOCKS,!! SO PUMP GAS , IS NOT WHAT IT USED TO BE, I WISH MY MAX WAS FUEL INJECTED !!! THANKS FOR ALL THE IN PUT, I THINK ITS GREAT !! THE DEALER SAYS THAT THE ADDITIVE THATS BLUE & MADE BY STAR-TRON IS THE ANSWER, DOES ANYONE USE THAT STUFF ?? I HAVE IT , IT LOOKS LIKE WINDSHIELD WASHER FLUID TO ME !! "LOL":confused2:

 

[Tom_Owens]

Pump gas has additives that do several things, most importantly:

Clean the engine (detergents), stabilize the gas (so it sits in the tank for a few weeks without going south on you).

Race fuel has neither of those. Reason being that in a race application, the gas isn't going to be around for very long. You'll burn it up in a matter of a couple hours. It's not made to sit in the tank.

They also assume you don't need any detergents as in most race applications the engines are torn down and rebuilt ever other even at least. Sometimes, it's every event. In drag racing, it's every single run.

The reason people add seafoam and the like is that they put their bikes up over the long winter months and it helps make the gas even more storageable and cuts down on the gas going south after it's been sitting in the garage/basement from November to February.

Anyone adding octane additive to a stock Max is wasting time, money and effort...not to mention potentially harming the engine.

Regards,
Tom

 

[Buster Hymen]

Pump gas has additives that do several things, most importantly:

Clean the engine (detergents), stabilize the gas (so it sits in the tank for a few weeks without going south on you).

Race fuel has neither of those. Reason being that in a race application, the gas isn't going to be around for very long. You'll burn it up in a matter of a couple hours. It's not made to sit in the tank.

They also assume you don't need any detergents as in most race applications the engines are torn down and rebuilt ever other even at least. Sometimes, it's every event. In drag racing, it's every single run.

The reason people add seafoam and the like is that they put their bikes up over the long winter months and it helps make the gas even more storageable and cuts down on the gas going south after it's been sitting in the garage/basement from November to February.

Anyone adding octane additive to a stock Max is wasting time, money and effort...not to mention potentially harming the engine.

Regards,
Tom

Hmm.. I don't know about that. I'd never let gas sit in the VMax for 2 weeks otherwise I'd be pulling out the carbs for a cleaning. I don't think they have a very good stabilizer in it, if any at all. I use Seafoam during the riding season so the crappy gas quality doesn't plug my jets. And for winter I use Stabil, which is a gas stabilizer.

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I was gonna mention highly oxygenated fuels being beneficial; regardless of octane. I know almost all the guys running competetive track racing (the kind that has corners:biglaugh run it and live by it.

I decided to do a little research before posting and ran across several sites talking about it. VP U4 is the one several of the guys I know use.
Bear in mind these are track bikes only, but they are internally stock, albeit much higher performance engines than the Max.

http://www.rc51.org/fuel.htm

What do y'all think?

 

[Tom_Owens]

Hmm.. I don't know about that.

I do. It's fact. As a former racer, I can promise you there's a difference. As a former volunteer for Panoze, I can also promise you there's a difference.

Check out any major petroleum's web site and read up on their fuels. They'll tell you all about the detergents they use to keep your engine clean. Race fuels have little and in most cases none of that at all.

There is one exception to the rule, engine wise: Formula 1. The most advanced engines in the world are required to run off of pump gas.

That's right. Michael Schumacher's World Championship F2000 Ferrari runs off of plain old, out of the pump, 93 octane Shell Super Unleaded.

For the record: That's 945 hp out of a 3.0 litre V-10.

Regards,
Parminio

 

[forestdaledave]

As far as I know the EPA has mandated all pump gas in the US to have some ethanol in it. Ethanol compared to straight gasoline has less BTUs for any given quanity. Like the old Grey Mare, it isn't what it used to be.
Dave

 

[COP RUNNER]

KNOW THATS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT ! THANKYOU ! "LOL" "LOL"

 

[Maximum]

I ride anytime I can in the winter--main problem is a 600 foot long stone driveway that retains ice and snow longer than the local roads. Anyway, my '07 Max has sat as long as 4 weeks unrun this winter, and it lights up, idles fine, and pulls like a locomotive. 89 'tane Sunoco. Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[Robbarrie]

I know nothing about racing fuel...to comment on. But I knew a guy who drove a tanker for one of the big companies delivering fuel to gas stations. He was telling me that the fuel starts to (drop) or loose it's octane % as soon as it's blended and degrades faster as it is exposed to air and a temperature change. (don't remember why that was - sorry ) He also was saying that they often have to add octane at times to boost it up to standards. I have to agree with the comment that the fuel quality standards probably has gone down due to the high demands. Lets face it, these gas companies will do anything to make it more profitable. I don't add to my gas other than seafoam, nor do I use anything other than, the regular grade. Maybe the odd time I'll run the good stuff. Not sure why really, maybe it's a thing I have, - it's better for the bike, then again who am I kidding !

 

[Tom_Owens]

I ride anytime I can in the winter--main problem is a 600 foot long stone driveway that retains ice and snow longer than the local roads. Anyway, my '07 Max has sat as long as 4 weeks unrun this winter, and it lights up, idles fine, and pulls like a locomotive. 89 'tane Sunoco. Maybe I'm just lucky.

No, my brother. It's just that our '07's don't have the wear and tear and milage on them that say, a guy with an '89 has.

Regards,
Parminio

 

[COP RUNNER]

GREAT INPUT EVERYBODY ! HERES A LITTLE HISTORY TO WHY IM ASKING, I RACED STOCK CARS ON & OFF MY WHOLE LIFE, AT ONE POINT I DID NOT MISS A SATURDAY NIGHT AT THE TRACK FOR 17 YEARS , WON A BUNCH OF RACES , ALL WITH RACE FUEL, NOW THE MODIFIEDS HAD $40,000 HIGH COMPRESSION ENGINES, I WAS ON THE CREW OF ONE, & HELPED SEVERAL OTHERS , NO DOUGHT USING RACE FUEL , SOME OF THE OTHER DIVISIONS LIKE STREET STOCKS ARE LIMITED TO 9.5 :1 COMPRESSION, & 2 BBL. CARBS. BUT ANY CAM YOU WANTED, 30-40 STREET STOCK TEAMS PUT RACE FUEL IN THERE CARS EVERY SATURDAY NIGHT , MOST INCLUDING SOME OF MY OWN ENGINES WOULD LAST A WHOLE SEASON BEFORE A REFRESH , NOW I FIND IT REAL HARD TO BELIEVE THAT INSTEAD OF RUNNING RACE FUEL & 40 DEG. FULL ADVANCE IGNITION TIMING , THAT I COULD OF RUN PUMP GAS & RETARDED MY TIMING TO WHO KNOWS 20 DEG. & WENT FASTER, I AGREE THAT "SAY BOTH CARS AT 20 DEGS. 1 WITH PUMP GAS & THE OTHER ON RACE FUEL ,WOULD NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE " BUT THE 1 WITH RACE FUEL I COULD ADVANCE THE TIMING TO 40 DEGS. & SMOKE THE PUMP GAS CAR" THATS A FACT ! I'VE RUN RACE FUEL IN EVERYTHING I'VE HAD SINCE I WAS 17 YEARS OLD & DRAG RACED USING MY FRIENDS DRIVERS LICENSE BECAUSE YOU HAD TO BE 18 YEARS OLD TO RACE IN NEW JERSEY, & NOW IM 45 , MAN I'M GETTING OLD "LOL" , ITS IN MY SNOW BLOWER-WEED WACKER-LEAF BLOWER-GENERATER , RAN IT IN MY SKI BOAT I HAD FOR 14 YEARS WITH A PRO-V 150 YAMAHA OUT BOARD ON IT , 4 OTHER MOTORCYCLES , 3 DIRTBIKES , 2 QUADES ,HELL 15 YEARS AGO WHEN I BOUGHT MY HOUSE I BOUGHT A TORO LAWN MOWER GUARANTEED FOR 2 YEARS TO START ON THE SECOND PULL IT STILL DOES ! 15 YEARS OF RACE FUEL NO STABIL-NOTHING , MY V-MAX IS THE FIRST THING I WAS NOT RUNNING RACE FUEL IN , & IS THE FIRST THING I EVER HAD WITH CARB TROUBLE ,THEY ARE FIXED AT THIS POINT ! THATS WHY I WANTED EVERYONES INPUT, I TAKE CAR ENGINES APART FOR A LIVING , WHATEVER ADDITIVES THERE PUTING IN PUMP GAS TO KEEP ENGINES CLEAN IS NOT WORKING !!! INTAKE RUNNERS & THE BACK SIDES OF THE VALVES LOOK LIKE MY BABEQUE GRILL "LOL" PS. I'M NOT YELLING AT ANYONE I USE CAPITAL LETTERS BECAUSE THERE EASYER FOR ME TO READ !!! "LOL" I HOPE WE CAN KEEP THIS GOING UNTIL WE NO FOR SURE !!! " RACE FUEL OR PUMP GAS "

 

[COP RUNNER]

SORRY FOR SCARING EVERYONE AWAY , I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF MY QUESTION , RACE FUEL VS. PUMP GAS , I GUESS WE'LL NEVER KNOW !:confused2:

 

[Laxfan]

I am going to try and say what Tom Owens has said ,but try and say it a differant way??....
All gasoline, regardless of its? octane rating, have pretty much the same amount of potential energy per gallon.
Octane is NOT a measure of power but of the fuels? resistance to ignition from heat. A higher-octane fuel, under identical combustion chamber conditions, will burn slower. The higher the octane number, the more energy it takes to ignite the gas. Just putting in 100 octane fuel will NOT make your bike faster (unless your engine is specifically designed for it).

 

[82ndCowboy]

I have a buddy that swears he runs it because it's cleaner. We've argued over it at length several times. But he still insists his car runs better on higher octane gas, no matter what info I show him on it.
He just won't give up the idea that higher octane is better gas, therefore his car runs better, even though it runs fine on the lowest octane.
So I gave up. I just laugh when he pisses away money on the more expensive gas.
Some people no matter what info you give them refuse to accept it.

 

[COP RUNNER]

THIS WHOLE THREAD WAS MENT TO BE ABOUT THE ADDITIVES , NOT THE OCTANE ! :confused2: I WRITE WITH CAPITOL LETTERS BECAUSE ITS EASIER FOR ME TO READ , NOT BECAUSE IM YELLING ! "LOL"

 

[Maximum]

I ride anytime I can in the winter--main problem is a 600 foot long stone driveway that retains ice and snow longer than the local roads. Anyway, my '07 Max has sat as long as 4 weeks unrun this winter, and it lights up, idles fine, and pulls like a locomotive. 89 'tane Sunoco. Maybe I'm just lucky.

No, my brother. It's just that our '07's don't have the wear and tear and milage on them that say, a guy with an '89 has.

Regards,
Parminio

Thanks for the thought, Parminio. Should have known it wasn't luck. Luck's been in short supply for me, lately. I think "newness" is probably the best explanation.

Chris.

 

[COP RUNNER]

THIS WAS ABOUT THE ADDITIVES, NOT THE OCTANE !:deadhorse: "LOL" "LOL" I CAN'T BEAT THIS ISSUE ANYMORE, 6 MONTHS FROM NOW I'M GOING TO REWORD IT, AS GASOLINE ADDITIVES ! "LOL" AND SEE WHAT HAPPEN'S, "LOL"

 

[rattheroach]

you guys must have shit fuel over there. ive left my bikes for months before, jumped the battery and had no problems with the running ofthe bike.

:rocket bike:

 

[COP RUNNER]

SEE NOW SOMEBODY GOT WHAT I WAS SAYING & THEIR NOT EVEN IN THIS COUNTRY ! "LOL" :rofl_200:

 

[COP RUNNER]

JUST FOR THE RECORD , MY WEED WACKER - LEAF BLOWER - LAWN MOWER & EVEN MY SNOW BLOWER , THAT NONE OF WHICH GOT USED ALL WINTER , STARTED RIGHT UP , AFTER SITTING ALL WINTER WITH FULL TANKS OF 110 OCTANE RACING FUEL ! I'LL BE RIGHT BACK , I'M GOING TO GET A LOTTERY TICKET !!! :rofl_200: