Starter spins but motor doesnt grab

[ninjaneer]

this just started happening last week. It is weird. I'll push the starter button and can hear the starter motor spinning, but the bike wont fire up. on one occassion, I pushed the bike forward an inch or so and the bike fired up. However,on a separate occasion, I tried doing the same thing when the bike wouldnt fire up, and no joy, but a few minutes later, and I dont think I did anything, I desparately pushed in the starter button and the bike fired right up. Wtf. Since then, the bike'll exude the same symptom now and again and I'll hump the seat, jostle wheels, and pray to the monkey goddess, all with mixed results. What do y'all think is going on? I did rebuild the starter several months ago, but hadnt seen this issue once in what has to be at least 1000 attempts. I'm thinking of popping off the side cover to make sure there isnt a stripped gear, but wanted to see what you guys thought, because securing a leak-free seal is such a bitch and I finally have it on leak-free.

Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android

 

[davidon]

Sounds like teeth of gears/starter clutch are not meshing quite right. Unfortunately I would pop the cover to check gears/alignment. Don't know if there is a way around it.

 

[alorio1]

Could be loose screw/bolt that hold the starter clutch in place or the cage that holds the rollers and springs is cracked. If the cage is cracked its hard to detect with the naked eye. I think I hear Captain's truck starting up headed your way again...........Joe

 

[PATMAX]

You didn't say it was the box o rocks sound sound. You said you here the starter spinning right? If that is the case, the starter isn't throwing out the (pinion?) gear to engage the starter gears then right? If you are getting the rocks sound, then the starter sounds like it is doing its parts and its time to pop that nice dry cover and look for the loose screws or bad gears maybe. Keep us informed.
PATMAX

 

[johnpclynch]

You don't have to get the bag-of-rocks sound to say your starter clutch is gone
If your starter clutch has cracked or the tiny springs won't push the rollers back into position then the big starter gear will spin without engaging the flywheel (sometimes gravity might pull a roller back into position and allow the bike to start)
When your bolts loosen/shear off then you'll get the bag of rocks sound

 

[MaxMidnight]

I agree with Mr Lynch - inspect the starter clutch mechanism.

For info, all gears remain in mesh, there isn't any inertia system.

 

[CaptainKyle]

you don't have to get the bag-of-rocks sound to say your starter clutch is gone
if your starter clutch has cracked or the tiny springs won't push the rollers back into position then the big starter gear will spin without engaging the flywheel (sometimes gravity might pull a roller back into position and allow the bike to start)
when your bolts loosen/shear off then you'll get the bag of rocks sound

+ 1

 

[Rusty McNeil]

One of the gears in the gear train is easy to install the wrong way too..??? although I think you would have noticed that right away...

Oh, our starters don't "throw a gear" out like old chevies, all the gears are meshed all the time, the starter clutch is the only thing keeping the engine from spinning the starter.......

Maybe you had a more rapid than usual clutch failure, not showing the intermittent signs along the way we usually get:ummm:

Either way I think you're going to have to open it up...

 

[PATMAX]

Open that sucka up! Catch all the parts running around with your magnetic pen tool. Better you than me!

 

[ninjaneer]

Guess I'm gonna have to. Apparently there could be more wrong than I had hoped. No way of knowing unless I go in, huh? It's gonna have to wait until I can catch up to a free weekend.

 

[wildweasel_pt]

Hey Greg its not such a big deal opening it up. Regarding the seal by the rubber grommets for stator and pickup wires just take them out clean them well and reinstall them with some silicon gaskett. Its pretty simple and works nicely...

 

[gamorg02]

great way to test out one of jedi's new pullers!

 

[PATMAX]

Whats a "free weekend". I used to have those when I was and single 26 years ago!

 

[bazwell]

Bummer dude! Sounds like starter clutch! :bang head:

At least you know how to do it now. Just needs a teeny weeny little bit of force to get that thing off. :rofl_200:

 

[ninjaneer]

So, I think I figured out my problem. I pulled the seat and found one of the ground wires' terminal had broken free from that grounding spot on the right side of the frame. If the broken terminal is the root cause, it would explain why I would be able to start the bike by jiggling the bike because my knees would press the seat to the frame, which press the grounding terminal to the frame. But I'm not totally convinced because I was able to start the bike without the wire attached. I tried to trace the wire to understand its purpose but it disappears into the harness that runs along the coolant fill housing. So far, no problems, but with my luck I've now jinxed myself by making the claim. With that being said, I went into the hunt figuring it was an electrical gremlin and took all kinds of measurements. As a result, I think I know how to help remedy "hot start" problems, but will won't reveal my solution, until I can prove my prototype.

 

[wildweasel_pt]

The main ground wire has a splice with a smaller gauge wire with a ring terminal. Maybe you broke that one for what i understand? Braking it doesn't do any harm, that smaller wire is attached to the frame and the thicker one to the engine block by the oil filler port, i see it as a redundancy wire for frame grounds if the engine is not grounding well to the frame. That does not affect the starter.

 

[ninjaneer]

thanks for chiming in fred, but i'm pretty sure its not this subassembly.