Caliper install not proceeding well..

O.K. I ve installed the R1 calipers and I can't get any lever pressure to build-up. I'm about to rip everything off and reinstall the stockers but before I do, maybe someone can enlighten me.

I bought the R1's and they were shipped to me in a ziplock with the brake fluid sloshing around them. I had to completely disassemble them and have them cleaned and powdercoated. I also removed the blue inserts and had them powdercoated since the blue anodizing was screwed up from the brake fluid. Reassembled (original orings) and installed new brake pads. Both orings for each piston seemed in good shape. I used just a little bit of fluid to slip the pistons back in. The oring for the inserts seemed good, too.

Once on the bike, I could not get any fluid to pump down to the calipers. I hooked up a small pump and sucked fluid into both caliphers and started bleeding by hand. I can get a little pressure, just enough to push a little fluid out when I open the bleeders. I get mostly fluid with just an occasional air bubble. The lever still just pulls in to the grip with very little resistance.

If I'm sucking air, why don't I see any brake fluid leaking out around the pistons? I did pump the lever when the lines were disconnected to get the old brake fluid out, Could this have messed up the master cylinder? Seems odd that I can't pump up the lever pressure at all.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

It sounds like you may have air in your master.

I had the same situation on my Ninja project and couldn't get it to bleed for shit.
I ended up using a turkey baster syringe thing and a short piece of aquarium air hose hooked to the caliper bleeders, to push the brake fluid up to the master cylinder.
That was my last great Idea, 'cause I was all out of 'em. It actually worked too.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Do yourself a favor and buy a MityVac at the auto parts store and pull a vacuum on it. After that let is sit over night with the lever taped back against the bar to let any air bubbles escape up. You can also wrap a rag around where the lines attach to the master, squeeze the lever and loosen the banjo fitting letting fluid and any air that may be trapped escape then tighten and release the lever.

Good luck.:thumbs up:

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

^ and here he comes with an easy way.
I've filed that one in the list of things to buy. Thanks.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Thanks for the tips. I did use an electric vacuum pump to get the fluid to start coming out of the bleeders. I can pump fluid to beat the band but I still don't get any pressure to build up. I went back to hand bleeding so I don't use so much brake fluid. The synthetic stuff isn't exactly cheap.

I'm not sure what you mean by air in the master cylinder. Where would it be trapped?

Do I have to leave the top of the master cylinder off when I let it sit overnight with the lever taped back?

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

When a master goes empty it traps air and you usually have to bench bleed it first then do the rest of the system. If I change brake lines, I always make sure some brake fluid stays in the master for this reason. There is another thread on this forum on how to bench bleed a master.

Here's the post here: http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?p=18593&highlight=bench+bleed#post18593

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Read the thread. I never let the master go dry, it was always at least a third full. I still can't figure how I would have air in the master if I can pump fluid down through the bleeders. I'm going to tape the lever back and let it set overnight. I'll get a rubber mallet and tap the calipers and master to help release any air bubbles.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Well, situation is still FUBAR. I guess I try letting it set and randomly bleed and tap the calipers for a few days. Then I'll go back to stock. Thanks for the tips.

see below

Just need some patience to get all the air out. I know it is frustrating. I also use a rubber mallet and tap on calipers/master while moving handlebars side to side and pumping. Did you try to reverse fill? I would keep trying to foward fill and reverse fill and the tapping each time until you get some pressure built up to do the overnight step. You can also push caliper pistons all the way back in (keep MC top off) to try and remove any bubbles there (Give it some taps afterwards as well). Did you take out the little metal piece in the master reservoir..sometimes this can give problems (I think). Put back when you build up some pressure.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

You didn't shake the bottle of brake fluid to mix it up did you?:ummm::whistlin::confused2:


Sounds stupid but I knew someone that did that...:bang head:

It was like he filled his lines with foam!:biglaugh:

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Dezeez said:

Read the thread. I never let the master go dry, it was always at least a third full. I still can't figure how I would have air in the master if I can pump fluid down through the bleeders. I'm going to tape the lever back and let it set overnight. I'll get a rubber mallet and tap the calipers and master to help release any air bubbles.

Click to expand...

OK, then we can eliminate the master. You said you used some type of pump to bleed it too, which should have done the trick. In this case, I would suspect that there is an issue with the caliper and there is a small leak on it.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

You know, I am a fluid shaker type of guy but I don't remember shaking the brake fluid. I would imagine I would see the bubbles when I open the master cylinder. I 'll try the pushing the pistons back idea tomorrow. I might take it for a quick spin up and down my development road just to try and shake the bubbles loose. I know, no front brakes, over 80% braking power lost but there's no traffic here. Just has to stop raining, don't want my baby to get dirty. Again, thanks for all the suggestions.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Hey Buster, When I said "read the tread", I meant that I read the thread about bench bleeding the master. I just realized that it could be taken as a smart ass reply. Sorry about that.

I'm not ruling out air in the master but man, I don't want to mess with removing the brake lines unless it's a last resort. I know I'll spill that nasty crap somewhere I shouldn't. The master 's paint has already been touched up as it is.

If there's a leak in the caliper around the pistons, would I see brake fluid leaking out somewhere? Or is this one of those air molecules are smaller than fluid molecules things?

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Dezeez said:

Hey Buster, When I said "read the tread", I meant that I read the thread about bench bleeding the master. I just realized that it could be taken as a smart ass reply. Sorry about that.

I'm not ruling out air in the master but man, I don't want to mess with removing the brake lines unless it's a last resort. I know I'll spill that nasty crap somewhere I shouldn't. The master 's paint has already been touched up as it is.

If there's a leak in the caliper around the pistons, would I see brake fluid leaking out somewhere? Or is this one of those air molecules are smaller than fluid molecules things?

Click to expand...

No problem, I didn't see your reply as being smart ass. You mentioned that the master didn't go dry, so I don't think the air is trapped in the master. A "leaky" caliper won't necessarily show signs of a fluid leak, a lot of times it is sucking air in but won't show signs of a leak. I've seen where air was getting sucked in around the threads of the bleed nipple. You might want to check that or put a wrap of thread sealant around the bleed nipple threads. I believe the issue isn't trapped air in the system but something is sucking in air when you try to bleed it. If the only thing you have changed is the caliper (and not the lines) then the air is being sucked in somewhere on the caliper. Like I said, start with the bleed nipple.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Well, what do you know. I backed the bike out of the garage today and since it was still too ugly to take it down the road, I kept ramming the front tire into the curb, compressing the forks and twisting the handlebars back and forth. Took it into the garage and kept bleeding the brakes and I now have pressure at the lever. I still think I have a bit of air as the lever pumps up just a little but I'll wait until I ride a few miles and then bleeded again.

Thanks for all the help. I would have given up if everyone wouldn't have said to keep trying.

I have one last question for the guys who use the R1 mod. I know that the R1 calipers don't match the stock master but did your lever position change much as compared to stock? My lever pulls in until it's about an inch or a little less from the grip now. With the stock calipers, the levers stopped at least an inch farther away from the grip. In other words, I get a lot more travel with the lever now.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

I think the last set I installed the lever was about the same position. If you haven't already you can upgrade the hoses which will help immensely.

My last set of stock calipers I could pull the lever all the way to the handle and it just barely away from locking the wheel. actually worked well since I could give it as much brake as I wanted and not have it lock up. Still prefer the other way though.

Sean

Sean

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Sounds like you still have air in those lines but mine would do the same with the stock rubber hoses (which expand when you compress the brake fluid).

With additional bleeding they will firm up.

With replacement of the rubber hoses they should be solid.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Dezeez said:

I have one last question for the guys who use the R1 mod. I know that the R1 calipers don't match the stock master but did your lever position change much as compared to stock? My lever pulls in until it's about an inch or a little less from the grip now. With the stock calipers, the levers stopped at least an inch farther away from the grip. In other words, I get a lot more travel with the lever now.

Click to expand...

A well bled R1 caliper/factory master setup will have very little lever pull once its done, and you should be getting action as soon as you put pressure on the lever. I bled mine for what seemed like forever before I got a decent level pull. If you install some HH compound pads with those calipers it should make a HUGE difference from stock.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Heretic said:

A well bled R1 caliper/factory master setup will have very little lever pull once its done, and you should be getting action as soon as you put pressure on the lever. I bled mine for what seemed like forever before I got a decent level pull. If you install some HH compound pads with those calipers it should make a HUGE difference from stock.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I do believe that there's a little bit of air left. I want to take the bike for a short spin to shake things up as soon as weather permits and then I'll bleed some more. I did install new EBC HH pads with the calipers and I already have SS lines.

Re: R1 caliper install not proceeding well..

Dezeez said:

Thanks for the info. I do believe that there's a little bit of air left. I want to take the bike for a short spin to shake things up as soon as weather permits and then I'll bleed some more. I did install new EBC HH pads with the calipers and I already have SS lines.

Click to expand...

Make sure you break the pad's in correctly! It tells you how right on the containers they come stuck to.:thumbs up: