Odd clicking sound from the rear diff

[tugla]

well for sure have to check the bearings for unusual wear patterns and anything on the diff. after a few rides, it aient lined up its gonna effect it eventually man, somethings gotta give but just might take a while. cant heat it up and try to line it all back up eh?
otherwise turn up the volume via right hand twist

 

[satariel666]

I can tell that Im sure about the couse.

Dale is right altough its still the neddle bearing.
As I've mentioned those suckers dont like radial errors.
Its visible at the inner race, very minor but still non regular marks.

So whats the cure?
Something in not in the axis with each other.
Swingarm, axle or wheel.

Personaly I would leave the axle.

I would say that swingarm may be bend after welding or the wheel may be bend with the same way.

You need to find out what is bend.
You may try to lose the M8 bolt thats holding the axle on the caliper side.
See if that helps.
If not then You gonna need to check that wheel.

 

[gamorg02]

I can tell that Im sure about the couse.

Dale is right altough its still the neddle bearing.
As I've mentioned those suckers dont like radial errors.
Its visible at the inner race, very minor but still non regular marks.

So whats the cure?
Something in not in the axis with each other.
Swingarm, axle or wheel.

Personaly I would leave the axle.

I would say that swingarm may be bend after welding or the wheel may be bend with the same way.

You need to find out what is bend.
You may try to lose the M8 bolt thats holding the axle on the caliper side.
See if that helps.
If not then You gonna need to check that wheel.

i talked to Sean today i'm going to see if the swingarm is not fully in line. If not i'm going to try bending it slightly.

If i put the wheel on jack/jackstands and turned in, how would i check to see if something isn't in line? I have a dial indicator? Maybe check the most inner part I can to see what kind of runout i'm seeing?

 

[satariel666]

i talked to Sean today i'm going to see if the swingarm is not fully in line. If not i'm going to try bending it slightly.

If i put the wheel on jack/jackstands and turned in, how would i check to see if something isn't in line? I have a dial indicator? Maybe check the most inner part I can to see what kind of runout i'm seeing?

Yep, Ya need to check both sides of the rim and compare them each other.
Try to locate as much straight part of the rim as You can.

Tolerance at the edge of the rim?
Lets say 0,5mm.

You can always take off the "star thingy" and dial the rim there.
That part under the clutch hub should be near to perfect tolerance.

 

[gamorg02]

Yep, Ya need to check both sides of the rim and compare them each other.
Try to locate as much straight part of the rim as You can.

Tolerance at the edge of the rim?
Lets say 0,5mm.

You can always take off the "star thingy" and dial the rim there.
That part under the clutch hub should be near to perfect tolerance.

worst part of new 'lip' was 0.025". worst part of original rim was 0.015" (most outside part) so that looks well within spec

talked to sean, and we agreed the swingarm was a bit pinched from what it should be (about 1/8"). took a suburban scissor jack and bent it back. the axle lined up so much better without the wheel in and the final drive looked flush against the swingarm (which it hadn't done before).

put it all back together and no creaking. started it up and once it got warm, still creaking. well i'm out of ideas.

maybe its the needle bearing now being slightly out of whack and needs to bed in?

not sure i'll keep an eye on it over the next few thousand miles..

rode it today into work and it seems it was a LITTLE better when in N but was still creaking when off and when in gear and i'd push it when the gear engages...

 

[satariel666]

Garret.
Rim is good as Ya sayin.

I think You found the source.
Maybe it still need to bend back it more?
You can always take the swingarm to the machine shop
and messure it on the CNC mill.
Or if You know someone with coordinate measuring machine - taht would be the best way.
My friend have one but You will not likely send it to me LOL

I think that neddle bearing may be damaged.

 

[gamorg02]

Garret.
Rim is good as Ya sayin.

I think You found the source.
Maybe it still need to bend back it more?
You can always take the swingarm to the machine shop
and messure it on the CNC mill.
Or if You know someone with coordinate measuring machine - taht would be the best way.
My friend have one but You will not likely send it to me LOL

I think that neddle bearing may be damaged.

I have a local machine shop that could do all that work if we think it needs to go there, I trust them to do it right.

however how would they do that when there is so much free play in a whole system like this? swingarm/final drive, wheel axle etc?

i'll keep an eye on it the next few days and see if the noises get better or worse. i really don't want to drive the needle bearing out again...

 

[satariel666]

Assemle the swingarm with pumpkin and the axle, without the wheel.
Leave the inner races/bearings and whole spacers with caliper bracket on the axle, so You can torque the axle nut to the spec.
This will give You almost complete setup but without the wheel and thats the trick - this way machine will get the space for mesuring.
Also give them the pivots so they can moun the whole thing on the table with
known points.
That should do the trick.

At the end they can remove the pumpkin with axle without removing the swingarm from the table and messure only the swingarm.
This will show the diffrence.

Good luck unk:

 

[gamorg02]

Assemle the swingarm with pumpkin and the axle, without the wheel.
Leave the inner races/bearings and whole spacers with caliper bracket on the axle, so You can torque the axle nut to the spec.
This will give You almost complete setup but without the wheel and thats the trick - this way machine will get the space for mesuring.
Also give them the pivots so they can moun the whole thing on the table with
known points.
That should do the trick.

At the end they can remove the pumpkin with axle without removing the swingarm from the table and messure only the swingarm.
This will show the diffrence.

Good luck unk:

ugh.

i hate to say it but if its not the wheel its almost probably cheaper to have sean make me a new swingarm.

 

[satariel666]

Yep, thats how it supouse to be look like LOL :rofl_200:

Only way to check that for sure.

 

[gamorg02]

creaking is better, i'll update in the next few days as well. thanks to przemek and sean for all the help.

 

[gamorg02]

Sean, Przemek, would any of these bearings be a suitable needle bearing replacement?

http://www.qbcbearings.com/BuyRFQ/NeedleB_ST_OE_M.htm

just trying to avoid spending $50 again!

 

[satariel666]

Ya have placed very good question.

When I start converting rims I use to have a big dillema with that neddle bearing.
Like You said, 50-70$ for 1 bearing in not a good idea.

Back then I was starting to search any replacment, another posibilities.
I know some guys here that been dispose of that neddle bearing.
IMHO thats not a good idea.
However they seems to be running fine that way.

Anyway, that neddle bearing in v-max rim is special made for Yamaha by some JP manufacter. Only for Yamaha which sucks on the whole line.

So I found an replacment which require some machining but.
I just bought one last week...timken for 15$...

Look here:
http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatal....jsp?maincatalogue=1&lang=en&showChapter=true

IMHO the best bearings manufacter over the world.

That bearing You post the link is shell type.
You also need the inner race for it.
I will answer You question: there's no shelf bearing that will match to stock inner race.

Look with "Needle roller bearings, with machined rings, with flanges, with an inner ring".

Theres a bearing there that Im using in my wheel conversions.

 

[gamorg02]

Ya have placed very good question.

When I start converting rims I use to have a big dillema with that neddle bearing.
Like You said, 50-70$ for 1 bearing in not a good idea.

Back then I was starting to search any replacment, another posibilities.
I know some guys here that been dispose of that neddle bearing.
IMHO thats not a good idea.
However they seems to be running fine that way.

Anyway, that neddle bearing in v-max rim is special made for Yamaha by some JP manufacter. Only for Yamaha which sucks on the whole line.

So I found an replacment which require some machining but.
I just bought one last week...timken for 15$...

Look here:
http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatal....jsp?maincatalogue=1&lang=en&showChapter=true

IMHO the best bearings manufacter over the world.

That bearing You post the link is shell type.
You also need the inner race for it.
I will answer You question: there's no shelf bearing that will match to stock inner race.

Look with "Needle roller bearings, with machined rings, with flanges, with an inner ring".

Theres a bearing there that Im using in my wheel conversions.

just to confirm, one of those will work i just need a new inner race too? I assume you use a different one because your OD is different?

 

[satariel666]

You will need completly diffrent neddle bearing or stock $$$ bearing.
Replacment have bigger OD but very similar inner race.

Wheel need to be rebored, very slightly.

 

[gamorg02]

You will need completly diffrent neddle bearing or stock $$$ bearing.
Replacment have bigger OD but very similar inner race.

Wheel need to be rebored, very sligtly.

i guess i'll stick with stock. ugh.. oh well

 

[gamorg02]

continuing my discussion here:

http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?p=163679#post163679

 

[gleno]

Check the large nut on the pinion. I can't tell you how many we have found that the nut was loose and causing all kinds of weird noises. If it is loose, get an impact and zap it down.

Sean Morley

Yes, Yes, Yes, definitely.

Had the same symptoms and this was the cause. Will post story soon. unk:

 

[gamorg02]

Yes, Yes, Yes, definitely.

Had the same symptoms and this was the cause. Will post story soon. unk:

which nut is this?

 

[one2dmax]

In the differential where the shaft would plug into. It has the small short spring sitting on top of the nut. Pull the shaft out and look into the splined adapter.