Sonoran6
Well-Known Member
The rich already pay obscene amounts of taxes. Fair tax would be best IMHO
how-taxes-work-in-usa-easy-version
how-taxes-work-in-usa-easy-version
Tax the rich
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Rusty McNeil
Well-Known Member
Double post
Rusty McNeil
Well-Known Member
I don't see how VAT is any better than sales tax. Ultimately a VAT would end up going straight to the federal government. And more bureaucracy is created since its assessed at every stage from raw materials to final sale. And more overhead for every handler of the product to manage yet another tax.
Also, both affect the consumer in the final sale price as taxes at every stage are just passed on to the buyer.
Finally, sales taxes primarily go to local and then state governments so the sales tax will not go away. The VAT would be in addition to any existing sales tax. Which means that the whole VAT just ends up costing the consumer more, and further feeds the governments spending spree by giving the VAT straight to the Feds with the hope that the taxpayers might see some of the benefits locally.
Our state governments are already jumping through hoops trying to get some of the federal dollars they pay back to their state.
It amounts to even more income redistribution but on a state by state basis rather than an individual basis.
Also, both affect the consumer in the final sale price as taxes at every stage are just passed on to the buyer.
Finally, sales taxes primarily go to local and then state governments so the sales tax will not go away. The VAT would be in addition to any existing sales tax. Which means that the whole VAT just ends up costing the consumer more, and further feeds the governments spending spree by giving the VAT straight to the Feds with the hope that the taxpayers might see some of the benefits locally.
Our state governments are already jumping through hoops trying to get some of the federal dollars they pay back to their state.
It amounts to even more income redistribution but on a state by state basis rather than an individual basis.
ouchez
Well-Known Member
I believe the South was right in trying to break away from Washington DC and form their own system, for now we see the outcome, a dictatorship in DC.
We are not all about freedom, just look at what we did to the South for trying to be truly free of Washington DC, murder and mayhem and destruction,,at the hands of the great saviour :rofl_200:,, Lincoln.
O
We are not all about freedom, just look at what we did to the South for trying to be truly free of Washington DC, murder and mayhem and destruction,,at the hands of the great saviour :rofl_200:,, Lincoln.
O
i think the millionares and billionares can afford to pitch in and pay a lil more:biglaugh:......
one thing i would like to see end is that dam earned income credit. getting back more than you paid in is taking money from hard working single folks....thats just not right. the dam welfare bitches know just how to work a lil part time and rape this credit ill tell ya.
one thing i would like to see end is that dam earned income credit. getting back more than you paid in is taking money from hard working single folks....thats just not right. the dam welfare bitches know just how to work a lil part time and rape this credit ill tell ya.
Get rid of NAFTA and try and reverse the effects it's had. Screw trying to make a one world economy. We didn't work hard as citizens of THIS country to pass some of our wealth to other countries that haven't sacrificed like we have. Increase Import tax's / duties to remove the incentive for companies to offload jobs.
We're big enough we can pretty much run ourselves with minimal outside assistance.
Sean
We're big enough we can pretty much run ourselves with minimal outside assistance.
Sean
max_caper
Well-Known Member
I wonder if the South would have been so eager to break away from DC during those years if everyone had a say in the matter?
Blaine
ouchez
Well-Known Member
The Southies sure as hell fought as if they had a say in the matter!!!
Had not Lee blundered hugely at G-Burg I feel confident the South would have won, and we may have been far better off today for it.
O
We can go on forever. Everyone needs to pay a fair share. Welfare ebt cards should have to buy generic brands. Store names bread milk ect.
Romney had a great idea everyone pays 20% and everyone has a cap for deductions to use as they wanted. Some people could use it for kids tuition, morgate intest rates ect. Everyone has a different situation.
All I know is if something doesn't change we are all screwed so let's hope the president can do something and something fast.
Romney had a great idea everyone pays 20% and everyone has a cap for deductions to use as they wanted. Some people could use it for kids tuition, morgate intest rates ect. Everyone has a different situation.
All I know is if something doesn't change we are all screwed so let's hope the president can do something and something fast.
I agree and guess who screwed us all in this agreement. Mr Bill Clinton. That should be the first thing to change that and the loop holes with tax breaks for companies to take their business to another country. Like is said this can go on forever :bang head:
poppop
Well-Known Member
Goldman sachs.Greed.Exxon mobile greed.And a 100 others .Nafta is one of a thousand bad bills,as is the recent ndaa.Foregin aid dosent go to the needie,It goes to the corrupt goverment,Who just dont give a dam.And we are supposed to pay.Chairtry begins at home.Dont care to pay my fair share,But im not going to contribute to ponzi schemes lying banks and corrupt potiticions!It's gone way to far.And it's killing the morality of U.S. It's been going on since the 60s.And even before.Our goverment was supposed to keep us free,and just do it right,They have failed miserbly.
max_caper
Well-Known Member
All I meant is that if it was a democratic decision at that time and if the African-Americans in the South had a say/vote in this matter then it may have played out differently.
Blaine
poppop
Well-Known Member
There a damn embaressment to our forefathers who fought and died for us.I have worked for a poor man.Myself.Started from damn near nothing.Turned it into a shop at home.I made it work by being fair and honest,Should we not expect the same from our leaders?
whatd you guys think of Gary Johnsons ideas. eliminate the IRS (god my life would be easy) flat sales tax (23% i believe). legalize marijuana, and stop being world police and bombings and start investing back here (thats the short version).
I was one of the 1% that voted for him... I was going to vote for Ron Paul until the dirty rotten republican cocksuckers threw him under the bus, he would have had a better chance of beating Obama because he at least has some fresh ideas like freedom....
ZackDaniels
Well-Known Member
That's all true as far as I know. I brought up VAT in response to so many people not paying fed income tax. It would be one way to ensure everybody including those here illegally pay in to the fed. It would be on top of existing sales tax and it wouldn't replace income tax at least not at first. The idea would be that if enough revenues came in off it income tax obligations would be reduced or eventually removed. It's ripe with flaws but talking about it helps to show where a simple 'x% across the board' plan isn't as simple as it looks on the surface. I'm not for it... hell in Illinois a pack of smokes cost me like $7 dollars now, and they keep trying to raise it more. I don't want any more sales tax of any kind lol . It's just an example of a flat rate tax and some of the problems with it.
This is from World War Z so I have no idea if it's accurate but at the very least it's entertaining and sort of wild to think about.
Zombie Obama:
ouchez
Well-Known Member
Well, the Blacks had no say, no vote, and that was the law at that time, the South was not breaking Washingtons laws in reference to slaves,,,it was legal.
When Lincoln freed the slaves he did so for those in the Confederacy, not those slaves in Union states,,,cool eh!
O
Klatuu
Well-Known Member
1. Repeal 16th Amendment.
2. Implement Fair Tax.
Do NOT proceed to #2 without accomplishing #1.
This will likely never happen as it would represent a massive transfer of power away from the federal government and back to individuals.
Among the other benefits would be an explosion of growth in the US economy as international business relocated to America, including the manufacturing jobs people pretend to be concerned about.
On the upside, I'm a tax accountant, and since this will never happen, I'll go on making a good living at the expense of most of you, by doing something you're either too busy (most of you) or to lazy (some of you) to educate yourselves on (I didn't say it was an upside for YOU).
The optimist in me loves liberty & my county more than I love my wallet, so I throw this out to pretty much everyone I know. The cynic in me thinks you won't take the time to educate yourself about it, be convinced I'm either deluded or trying to pull the wool over your eyes, and nothing will come of it. In the meantime, I take solace in PT Barnum's words, and smile when I go to the bank.
Seriously, put me out of business. I'll find something else, and so will a lot of you as a result.
2. Implement Fair Tax.
Do NOT proceed to #2 without accomplishing #1.
This will likely never happen as it would represent a massive transfer of power away from the federal government and back to individuals.
Among the other benefits would be an explosion of growth in the US economy as international business relocated to America, including the manufacturing jobs people pretend to be concerned about.
On the upside, I'm a tax accountant, and since this will never happen, I'll go on making a good living at the expense of most of you, by doing something you're either too busy (most of you) or to lazy (some of you) to educate yourselves on (I didn't say it was an upside for YOU).
The optimist in me loves liberty & my county more than I love my wallet, so I throw this out to pretty much everyone I know. The cynic in me thinks you won't take the time to educate yourself about it, be convinced I'm either deluded or trying to pull the wool over your eyes, and nothing will come of it. In the meantime, I take solace in PT Barnum's words, and smile when I go to the bank.
Seriously, put me out of business. I'll find something else, and so will a lot of you as a result.
i like gary johnson actually over ron paul, and i really really liked what johnson had to say. i think the 2 party system has to go as well.
very very interesting thoughts. thanks for your input. i'm not sure what category i fall into but i'd much rather spend time with the fam, wrench on my bike, ride it or watch a movie than learn this years tax law. so i stick with turbotax or similar products to guide me thru them.
do you think taking all the 'under the table' money for both inherently legal (tradesman) or illegal (drugs etc) that would then be taxable with a fair tax would actually increase the amt the fed took in? or maybe at what percentage point would they break even, in your mind?
Klatuu
Well-Known Member
I was a tax examiner for the IRS for 5 years, and I can kick the hell out of TurboTax, especially when it's used by the Average Joe. Money-making idea for you: call the Secretary of the Treasury, Tim Gietner, and clue him in on how to use it. His excuse for not filing properly during his confirmation was an inability to understand TurboTax, and it twisted more than a few titties at my old employer when a tax cheat was made their ultimate boss. Charge him handsomely if you do.
The Fair Tax is designed to be revenue neutral, but in the not-too-long run it will bring in more revenue as we will no longer be dis-incentiving making money. The full ramifications of it are a very deep rabbit hole, and you really need to read the book(s).
The Fair Tax is designed to be revenue neutral, but in the not-too-long run it will bring in more revenue as we will no longer be dis-incentiving making money. The full ramifications of it are a very deep rabbit hole, and you really need to read the book(s).
