Double D and clutch job

[Rusty McNeil]

The more I look at the diagram and parts required the more confused I'm getting.

I've done clutch jobs before but not the Max.

On the diagram from the service manual Section 3-67 from the vmaxoutlaw service manual link.

I'm seeing that there are a total of 8 friction plates.

It's identifying them as

Friction plate (2 pcs)

And Friction Plate (6 pcs)

The 2 are indicated on each extreme end of the plate-friction stack.

Their notation is kinda screwed up tho as they are using an @ symbol in place of what should be numbers in a few places but I sort of extrapolated and figured out what number they were trying to indicate. Wrongly most likely.

I assume these two are the reduced size friction disks everyone replaces with full size friction disks.

But I thought there was only one reduced friction disk.

And when I look at the diagram on the Yamaha parts finder,

http://www.tejasmotorsports.com/fiche_select.asp

it lists 7 ea. required friction discs and 1 ea. required friction discs.

Which I think is right.......

I already have one full size friction disk, one full size clutch plate, and a new diaphragm/clutch spring at home new in the box .


To do a complete friction disc job, the double D, and get rid of the small disk, how many more friction disks do I really need? And do I need ANY smaller disks?

The two sources I'm looking at aren't in agreement.

Thanks guys,

Rusty

 

[maleko89]

Rusty, you only need one full size friction disc to replace the 1/2 disc. So, you need a total of 8 friction discs and 7 clutch plates.

Have a gander here:

http://vmax.lvlhead.com/tips/clutch.htm

Here's a good picture of the 8 discs, 7 plates:

http://vmax.lvlhead.com/tips/clutch/AGF00010x800.jpg

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Thanks,

Awesome link and writeup....

Is it acceptable to beadblast the clutch plates instead of replacing them?

Thanks again,

Rusty

 

[maleko89]

Rusty, as long as the plates aren't warped glass beading is fine.

 

[one2dmax]

What you did notice was correct. Yamaha lists 3 different friction plate numbers. There is a single plate on the outboard end which is a full size plate. There are 6 plates in the middle that are full sized and the 1 plate on the inside that is 1/2 the width of the others (held in place along with a steel by the thin wire retainer).

You can simply get all 8 plates using the same number as the middle plates. If you've already got one then you only need 7 more. Don't forget that if you are using a full plate in place of the half plate you will need to remove not only the full plate but the two "washers" that ride under it. These "washers/spring" parts are fill for the missing 1/2 of the plate and act as a shock absorber for the clutch. This helps your transition when shifting to take away some of the lurchy feeling that you can get. You'll end up with 4 extra left over parts (1/2 plate, flat "washer", slight beveled "washer", and wire retainer).

Here's where it gets "complicated"

Many times you can actually change the 1/2 plate and install the extra spring and the clutch will last much longer with no problems. Even a clutch that is slipping will hold for longer when the extra spring is added.

I have surmised that the reason Yamaha calls for a different plate on the outboard side is that that plate has different frictional qualities. Maybe it is more durable. It is readily identified buy the long slot in one of the tabs where the others have the notches (you'll understand if you look at the plates). I've wondered if a full set of those plates would last longer or maybe even grip harder. it could be that it is just a little thicker - I don't know.

I do know that with the double d the clutch life is much improved since there is a considerable rediction in slippage. You're hand life may not improve though!

Sean Morley

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

No kidding about the hand strength thing.

The other night at the track the guy in the other lane screwed around so long getting staged my one finger hold on the clutch finally gave out and I stalled it at the line:bang head:

Looked like amateur night.

 

[lankeeyankee]

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

No kidding about the hand strength thing.

The other night at the track the guy in the other lane screwed around so long getting staged my one finger hold on the clutch finally gave out and I stalled it at the line:bang head:

Looked like amateur night.

You can always back out of a staged tree into the pre stage postion to take a break if the other guy is being a nimrod. After the burn out I will roll up into the pre stage put it in neatruel give it one more good wick of the throttle and wait to the other guy is pre staged. Then I will put it in to gear and stage the rest of the way in.
Mostly to let the clutch cool for a few seconds after the burn out. I dont have a problem with the clutch lever and my double D setup I think I would have felt it during Daytona Bike Week sitting in traffic and waiting 1.5 hours to go 3 blocks on A1A.
You may want to modify your lever if you feel its hard to pull and hold in.

 

[shawn kloker]

Rusty,bead blast the steel plates!

 

[lankeeyankee]

Rusty you want to ensure they arent warped. You can check them by laying them on a true flat service such as a piece of glass or metal table.
Check the ones that have a dark purple color to them.
I always sand blast mine to get more of a texture out of em.
Make sure if you do blast them, to wash and wash them again. Almost how you would wash your willy before going out on a date with a hot chick :rofl_200:

 

[Dreamster66]

Rusty you want to ensure they arent warped. You can check them by laying them on a true flat service such as a piece of glass or metal table.
Check the ones that have a dark purple color to them.
I always sand blast mine to get more of a texture out of em.
Make sure if you do blast them, to wash and wash them again. Almost how you would wash your willy before going out on a date with a hot chick :rofl_200:

soap, water and a little cologne?

 

[Rusty McNeil]

Make sure if you do blast them, to wash and wash them again. Almost how you would wash your willy before going out on a date with a hot chick :rofl_200:

So I'm I supposed to shave the clutch plates also:confused2:

 

[one2dmax]

What kind of "double d's" are you going for?

 

[MBreinin]

Mine were pretty bad. I roughed them up with a green Scothbrite pad and put it all back together. So far, no problems. I am using the PCW spring and a full sized disc. Got it all from them. Of course, I don't ride my Max that much so I don't expect to wear this clutch out.

All in all, it was an easy job. My biggest screw up was not using RTV on the cover. I had a nice oil leak as a result. :biglaugh:

Mike

 

[lankeeyankee]

Mine were pretty bad. I roughed them up with a green Scothbrite pad and put it all back together. So far, no problems. I am using the PCW spring and a full sized disc. Got it all from them. Of course, I don't ride my Max that much so I don't expect to wear this clutch out.

All in all, it was an easy job. My biggest screw up was not using RTV on the cover. I had a nice oil leak as a result. :biglaugh:

Mike

Why do you guys use RTV silicone:bang head:

If anyone hasnt noticed there is not one drop of RTV from the factory ya know why cause it comes off and its stuck in the oil pump pick up screen resulting in poor oil circulation
Only gasket sealant that is used is Yamabond which is on the cases
Gaskets new dry vaseline grease on the side that mates with the engine
Save the RTV for your windows in your house

 

[maleko89]

Why do you guys use RTV silicone:bang head:

If anyone hasnt noticed there is not one drop of RTV from the factory ya know why cause it comes off and its stuck in the oil pump pick up screen resulting in poor oil circulation
Only gasket sealant that is used is Yamabond which is on the cases
Gaskets new dry vaseline grease on the side that mates with the engine
Save the RTV for your windows in your house

I have to agree. I'm not sure about using it for mating cases but it shouldn't be needed for the crank case covers. I use only the gasket for stator, middle, clutch and waterpump covers. No leaks. Only time I used RTV was a little bit for the stator wire grommet and the inboard manifold bolts on the #2 and #3 cylinders. Oh, I smear some Permatex Blue to hold the valve cover gaskets to the covers.

 

[lankeeyankee]

I have to agree. I'm not sure about using it for mating cases but it shouldn't be needed for the crank case covers. I use only the gasket for stator, middle, clutch and waterpump covers. No leaks. Only time I used RTV was a little bit for the stator wire grommet and the inboard manifold bolts on the #2 and #3 cylinders. Oh, I smear some Permatex Blue to hold the valve cover gaskets to the covers.

Yupp only water such as thermostat housing which uses and o ring I use hightack to hold the valve cover gasket in place, A lot dont realize how fine the screen is for the oil pump pick up.
I noticed this on the first engine I tore down and looked at the screen and found rtv silicone stuck in the screen. If it does get past the filter and screen it will get stuck in oil passage ways. RTV not good!!

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I always use that sticky, messy black shit from permatex. Works like a champ.

RTV, when I've used it in the past, has always had a problem staying where you put it.

I don't even care what shape the gaskets are in, I just peel off the loose stuff that will come off without too much trouble and go with Permatex gasket maker.

Never had a leak yet; knock on wood.

Rusty

 

[copilot777]

so double -d clutch mod , or barnett pressure plate ? which one is best ?

 

[lankeeyankee]

so double -d clutch mod , or barnett pressure plate ? which one is best ?

I am running a double D mod running about 125RWHP with a 60HP shot of NOS with no clutch slippage..

If you have small weak hands/fingers I wouldnt do the double d, I have heard some people cry its to hard to pull or hold in traffic :baby:

I have done bike week in Daytona Beach 3 years and if you have ever seen the traffic you know what I mean, 45 mins to go one block with traffic.

 

[maleko89]

so double -d clutch mod , or barnett pressure plate ? which one is best ?

PCW. unk: