One of my issues is people calling the death of innocent people a good tragedy. But I suspect I am just nitpicking your words there to deflect from a broader point you were trying to make. I know how that feels.
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One of my issues is people calling the death of innocent people a good tragedy. But I suspect I am just nitpicking your words there to deflect from a broader point you were trying to make. I know how that feels.
I've got several firearms as well and conceal carry regularly. I'm ready for America to try to figure this out. No easy answers. I really wish I knew what drives someone to do something like this and figure out how to flip that switch off in a persons mind that wants to do it. But that's probably Minority Report pre-cog stuff.
I agree, we need to identify what's broken and to do that we need data. And there's a lot of roadblocks to prevent collection of relevant data so those need to be taken down. Start from there and move forward. Come to the table with the data and discuss, debate, disagree but we need come to the table and we(generally speaking as a country) just aren't doing that. Our founding fathers didn't all get along. They locked horns, yelled at each other, insulted each other, but they showed up at the table and came to a solution. I just want to see our reps in DC at least get to the table.
jethrobolas
Well-Known Member
"If you can't handle the heat....."
It's not that hard to become a resident in another country. Then you're that much closer to becoming a citizen in said country.
I'd rather stay for now.
Don't you have a communist revolution coming up soon?.....
https://refusefascism.org/2017/08/06/this-nightmare-must-end-the-trumppence-regime-must-go/
Don't you have a tiki-torch Nazi rally coming up soon? Was that an incorrect assumption to make that being pro-Trump = being pro-Nazi? Yea it was an incorrect assumption to make, because while I do know Trump has the support of the white nationalists I also know that one can be Trump supporter and yet also be anti-Nazi. They can separate the two. The same way one can be anti-Trump and anti-far left. One can be anti-Trump and also allow the multiple-investigations to run their course and accept the results. So why don't we agree I won't make assumptions about you and you don't make them about me and just debate/argue the points/opinions that have been put forth. Does that sound fair?
As far as leaving the country. Nope, not going anywhere. America has lost it's way before and righted itself. I have hope and faith it will right itself once again. And I will speak my mind while that happens. This "go to another country" is a popular trope among the right. It falls under that broader perspective I see quite often from the right that people who don't share the same opinion aren't "real Americans." Which to me is no better than those on the left setting up safe spaces so their glass feelings don't get broken or try to shut down speeches of people they don't agree with -- both perspectives go against the principles of our Republic IMO.
I'm pro-2nd Amendment and anti-dude in a hotel room raining down bullets on innocent people trying to enjoy some music and get their drunk on. I'm a gun owner who takes his kids to the range(posted pics of my daughter shooting on these forums a couple of years ago) but I'd also like to try to figure out how we can protect children from another Sandy Hook.
I agree with some of the points made here. If someone wants to do harm they will figure out a way to do it. Take away guns they'll just drive a truck through a crowd of people. So what's the answer? I don't know. Don't pretend to know. Gonna take a lot of people working to figure this out. In the end there may very well be a "price of freedom" that is ultimately paid in blood but can we at least TRY to keep that cost down? That's where my frustration lies... we aren't even trying. We've just accepted it.
caseyjones955
Well-Known Member
Im with you all the way here. Psychology, specifically criminal psychology has always fascinated me. They were always my favorite courses. The bad apple theory is strong and there is still plenty we really dont know about how the human mind works. Studies have been done pre and post mortem on such subjects and often nothing significant is found. Perhaps it suggests nurture over nature. I have always subscribed to the school of thought that both are significant contributors in every espect.
I fully subscribe to the validity of Skinner's operant conditioning research with rats. Rats are neurologically eerily similar to humans, moreso than other primates, which is why they often get the short straw for research. There have been experiments in increasing population density and the resulting changes in aggression, life span and other behaviors. I have lived in places from Seattle to remote rural locations and my own observations of human behavior support Skinner's research findings. In short, city folks are more likely to snap as a result of extreme overcrowding, such as seen in Seattle (?). I could feel my own temperament changing significantly as a result of 15 years in that shithole. Im less adaptable than most, probably because I did not grow up in such poor conditions. I have never seen so many high-strung uptight motherfuckers anywhere else. It changed over the 15 years I was there as the housing boom happened and Californians started fleeing CA and pouring into the Pacific NW. In a few short years it went from bad to intolerable. I saw the change in others and myself. While I would never do anything like the NV shooter did, it became less far fetched to understand why a human may sort of just loose their shit one day. Take the guns and they will use explosives, take explosives and tbey will use poison, take that and they will find another way.
Why do otherwise functional members of society just pop one day, who knows for sure but plenty of data suggests overcrowded living conditions may play a big role. Of course now there is self-radicalization like these idiots that do ISIS' bidding and weaker minds more easily enfluenced by violent media, drug use, Not like a bongrip or a beer with your pepperoni pie, I mean the hard stuff. I read that this NV shooter had an Rx for Valium and used it regularly leading up to his act. There are so many possible factors other than a physiological defect, or even a mental illness. There are a shocking number of people among us with some degree of mental illness. Look what can happen if you relentlessly bully someone. We may never fully understand why the NV shooter did it, but we can usually spot factors in other mass murders or attempts. I dont think we can ever eradicate every bad apple, or even spot them until its to late. This not giving a fuck attitude is strong and widespread, moreso than at any other time in my lifetime. Its discouraging. Its everything from the inconsiderate dickhole that flips a cigarette butt on the ground and walks away to folks that cant be bothered to try to install a moral and ethical compas into their children before unleashing them into society. Politicians, gun control and new laws cant save us, these are useless and even counterproductive. Im not sure what will work but maybe we can stop spinning our wheels with what has never worked before. Few things are more useless than lawmakers and most politicians.
ETOH kills many many more people than guns and mass murders but its less headline worthy. Its heart breaking when something happens like in Vegas but according to CDC.GOV 28 people every day are killed in ETOH related MVAs in the USA. Based on numbers and perspective, idiots with fully automatic long guns take a way distant ackseat to a 6 pack and a Camry.
Sorry its so long but this is fascinating as it is tragic, well beyond the gun arguement.
Traumahawk
Well-Known Member
Here is the reason why I say, "Dems will never let a good tragedy go to waste." Chicago will never be brought up about gun violence, because then you have to bring into it a Democratic mayor. You have to bring up the failed school policies. You have to bring up the strict gun laws. You also have to bring up that this has been going on for years.
A wacked out person goes on a shooting spree in LV. Well by God, we cant have this anymore. We must do something about it NOW.
A wacked out person goes on a shooting spree in LV. Well by God, we cant have this anymore. We must do something about it NOW.
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caseyjones955
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I gave sarcastic mention to Chicago in my last post. Do I get points for that? :clapping:
Traumahawk
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