Mattis Resignation...

[Traumahawk]

Lets recap the thread of discussion at approximately the time you started pointing out illegals were committing crimes:


- You copy and paste your "rules for radicals"
- I point out how your rules can easily apply to the Trump Admin. I gave a few examples.
-Out of the few examples I gave, you focus on only one - Trumps claims of a "crisis" at the border are making things seem worse than they really are.
-You respond with pointing out illegals who have killed people saying [paraphrasing] "Tell these people..."

That is a response. A continuation of a thread of discussion. But now you're claiming you weren't trying to make any point? Just a post that Americans have been killed by illegal aliens? And I'M the one obfuscating? Por fa fuckin' vor.

If people dying by illegal aliens is justification for saying there is a crisis at the border, for spending tax payer money to deploy troops to that border to face a crisis that doesn't exist and never materialized -- purely political theatre, gross exaggerations of the issue by vaguely implaying 4,000 terrorists cross the border, threats of declaring a national emergency and shutting down the government. Then by that logic those steps should be taken regarding Americans killing Americans because the numbers are FAR FAR greater therefore the crisis is far more severe and urgent.

Just yesterday an American killed 5 hostages in a bank in Florida. If only we had a wall around a bank that wouldnt have happened. Lets get some troops down to Florida because clearly there is a problem. Let's keep the government shutdown until the crisis in Florida is addressed. See how ridiculous that sounds?

So, because your saying that MORE Americans are killed by other Americans....then the Americans that are killed by Illegal Aliens just dont matter....is that it?

1641 Criminal convictions for homicide by illegal aliens in the fiscal year of 2018.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/man-19-detained-on-immigration-concerns-wanted-in-4-nevada-murders

 

[Itgoes]

1641 Criminal convictions for homicide by illegal aliens in the fiscal year of 2018.

Not sure where that number came from.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-alien-statistics

 

[Traumahawk]

Not sure where that number came from.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-alien-statistics

Yours is from customs and border protection, and mine is from ICE. So, look at your numbers.....3 people homicide....didnt you even thought that sounded just a bit off, when the link that i posted about was about a single illegal alien sought in the death of 4 people. So off of the document that you brought up, 3 people for the whole year, and now 1 illegal alien is suspect for 4 people.

Here is the PDF. That was a snippet that I had posted above.

https://www.ice.gov/doclib/about/offices/ero/pdf/eroFY2018Report.pdf

Fiscal Year 2018 ICE Enforcement and Removal Operations Report

 

[Kronx]

So, because your saying that MORE Americans are killed by other Americans....then the Americans that are killed by Illegal Aliens just dont matter....is that it?

1641 Criminal convictions for homicide by illegal aliens in the fiscal year of 2018.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/man-19-detained-on-immigration-concerns-wanted-in-4-nevada-murders

I'll post something I said right after you started you started your illegals kill people posts back on page 3.

"I feel at this point I have point out that highlighting the Trump administrations exaggeration does not mean I don't want better border security or that I don't care about the loss of those lives."

I think I made my point about as clear as I can in my previous post about your bad correlations. Perhaps you still think it's as clear a mud. Fair enough, I really don't know how to word it any different.

There is no "crisis" at the border. Republicans and Democrats from the border states have said this. This DOES NOT mean more border security is not needed. This DOES NOT mean there aren't criminals who cross the border. This also DOES NOT mean I don't care about the people who have been killed by illegal immigrants. It means there is no crisis that warrants deploying US military to the border or the president declaring a national emergency or shutting down the government for a border wall.

But you know it's not a crisis either. Your party doesn't really believe it's a crisis either. You're all full of it. You wanna know how I know this?

Because your party had two years to do something about it and didn't do it. Two years to fulfill one of Donald Trump's biggest campaign promises and didn't do it. Your party didn't need the Democrats. Your party passed a tax plan with 0 votes from Democrats. Clearly giving tax breaks to corporations was a higher priority than this "crisis" at the border. If the wall is the solution to the lives lost by illegal aliens you claim to care so much about -- your party had the power to do something about it and didn't do it.

But now that the Dems have the House suddenly its urgent enough to shutdown the government and create the longest shutdown in US history. Suddenly its urgent enough for Trump to consider declaring a national emergency. Two years. Tell me why your party didn't get it done in those two years. Tell me why your party didn't care enough about those people killed by illegal aliens enough to find it as urgent in those two years as it they do now.

And maybe while you're at it you can show me where Trump even attempted to play hard ball with country ya'll chanted over and over was gonna pay for it? Can you even show me where he attempted to get them to pay for it? Because from where I sit... he sure as shit seems to be harder on Americans over the wall by putting 800 thousand of them in financial distress and other Americans suffering from his trade wars than he ever has with Mexico.

Edit/PS - If you try to float the trade wars and renaming of NAFTA are how Trump is getting Mexico to pay for it, then show me the numbers and process of how that money finds its way into the federal budget. Feel free to link me someone else who will explain it as I'm sure you don't want to. I don't want theory. The government is not in a shutdown right now over theory. Its in a shutdown right now due to a very specific amount of money wanted for a very specific reason.

 

[Kronx]

In other news two reports of interest. Regarding Jared Kushner. It will be interesting to see how these unfold. I suspect a House Oversight Committee will have some questions for Mr. Kushner and the White House about this.

Officials rejected Jared Kushner for top secret security clearance, but were overruled
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...ret-security-clearance-were-overruled-n962221

And this one:

DEUTSCHE BANK WILLING TO REPORT JARED KUSHNER’S ‘SUSPICIOUS TRANSACTIONS’ TO ROBERT MUELLER: REPORT
https://www.newsweek.com/deutsche-b...ushners-suspicious-transactions-robert-786011

I'm trying to imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. If Hillary was president and this came out about a senior advisor on her staff. I mean lets not even talk about how Republicans would have reacted to her making Chelsea and her husband senior White House officials. GOP heads would have exploded over that alone. And rightly so I might add. But to overrule adjudicators? That's actually very rare. I'm reminded of Ashkan Soltani getting denied a clearance and the Obama administration was upset about it but still accepted the decision as final and didn't overrule it. But if this report is accurate and they overruled 30 times in a year and a half? That's a massive scandal.

I suspect the spin from the right defending Kushner will be this is all more deep state conspiracy instead of a guy whose got serious financial debt/problems. I had a TS/SCI clearance when I was in the Air Force and I know financials is one of the top things they look at if not THE top. I'm sure Kushner's dad being a felon for illegal campaign contributions, tax evasion, and framing his brother in law who was working with Federal Investigators probably didn't help his clearance either.

Keep in mind back in Feb of 2018 security clearances for White House made the news. But the GOP controlled the House so they didnt even bother looking into it. Party over country.

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/27/5892...ance-downgraded-following-white-house-scandal

Also worth reminding that Trump revoked security clearances of folks who criticized him. One doesn't get the impression he respects the process and protocols of security clearances.

PS - A bit of history. The anti-nepotism law was enacted in 1967. On at least 4 occasions over the next half century the DOJ said that law also applied to the White House staff. On 1/20/2017 the DOJ reversed it's position. Jared Kushner was exactly the type of risk the anti-nepotism law was designed to prevent.

It will be interesting to see how this transpires. This might even be more reason for Trump to declare a national emergency for more distraction.

 

[Traumahawk]

Because your party had two years to do something about it and didn't do it. Two years to fulfill one of Donald Trump's biggest campaign promises and didn't do it. Your party didn't need the Democrats. Your party passed a tax plan with 0 votes from Democrats. Clearly giving tax breaks to corporations was a higher priority than this "crisis" at the border. If the wall is the solution to the lives lost by illegal aliens you claim to care so much about -- your party had the power to do something about it and didn't do it.

It depends on which which house....and exactly what they are voting on. In the House, its a simple majority needed to pass something, and in the senate its 51 OR 60, depending on what they are voting on. Yesterday 60 VOTES were needed to pass ANY of the bills/resolutions. So....even though the republicans still control the senate, with I believe 53, you still wouldnt have had the 60 needed to pass. So, saying that YOUR PARTY controlled what ever, and still couldnt pass.....is misinformation.

 

[Edward]

I never said that illegal aliens murdering citizens was OK, Eddie. You gotta stop putting words in people's mouths. Where did I imply what you seem to have read into my post? Murder is wrong no matter who does it, in my opinion murder should be a federal Capital Offense.
Kill someone, and be convicted without any question of guilt, you forfeit your life. That goes equally for a citizen, and an illegal.

Billy, Billy, Billy! What am I going to do with you!?

It seems your plan is for the Federal government to take over ALL law enforcement. There is a reason the Founders gave law enforcement responsibility to the states. The idea is to have law enforcement responsibility as close as possible to the People. The only reason for the Federal government to get involved is when the crime is an issue of the CONSTITUTION. Murder is a crime in all states. It is NOT an issue of the Constitution.

This is a very dangerous path you on the left are walking. It ends with a dictatorship. I'll take my chances with my state government. Let the Feds protect the nation beginning with... the SOUTHERN BORDER!

 

[Edward]

Da da, Da da, Da da, Da da, Da da

You have studied you Progressive talking points well. There is NOTHING of value in this post. It is a regurgitation of leftist talking points. There IS a crisis on the border! The left’s assertion that there is not, DOESN’T MEAN there isn’t!

You are engaging in another invalid debate tactic in addition to your tiresome invective ("por fa fuckin' vor" Man! that's the most childish thing you have written to date) and ad hominem; “Reducio ad absurdum.” Let’s shut down Florida? Is that the best you’ve got? In case you are unaware, Florida is a STATE in the United States of America. Mexico is a sovereign NATION!

You seem to be fine with the outright MURDER of American citizens and you seem also to be fine with Americans dying from Heroin, Fentanyl and black tar Opium produced from plants that are grown in… MEXICO!

You on the left are so into the “Me Too” movement; does it bother you AT ALL that women and YOUNG GIRLS; yes, and YOUNG BOYS, are being imported into this country to be “USED” as sex SLAVES!? It’s the “product” that keeps on giving, because when they are “used up” in one city they are transported to another until… they are left (drug addicted, physically damaged and emotionally exhausted,) to die on the streets. I'M NOT OK WITH THAT!

TALK IS CHEAP!! If the southern border is secured, the drug cartels and the slavers are denied money that is the life blood of their control of all phases of Mexican life: governmental, legal and societal. People can’t go out of their houses without fear.

I have noticed during this long, long discussion, that you have NEVER proposed any solutions to any of the problems this country faces. It’s all about Trump bashing!

 

[Bill Seward]

Trumpf is taking us down the road to a dictatorship a lot faster than me.
Sad that someone like you, with your attitude of superiority and willingness to twist posts to make some point you're harping on cannot see this.
And you're not gonna do anything with me... Belittling comments like that show you up for the kind of person you truly are.

 

[Bill Seward]

I've read enough of your crap, Eddie. You're blocked.

 

[Edward]

Yet even MORE Trump bashing

Talk is cheap. You claim to want to do something about the border and then offer ABSOLUTELY NO SOLUTIONS!! What do you suggest as a solution to the border CRISIS?

The Republicans did not have a" Conservative" majority in the Senate. Discount RINOs like McCain, Murkowski, Collins, Flake etc. and there was no chance of getting anything meaningful regarding the Border CRISIS passed. Obstructionist Democrats are responsible for the shutdown, Nattering Nancy Pelosi said yesterday the Democrats were NOT working on a compromise plan! Oh, excuse me, she DID make an offer. Open the government and then the Democrats will NOT deal!

 

[Edward]

Trumpf is taking us down the road to a dictatorship a lot faster than me.
Sad that someone like you, with your attitude of superiority and willingness to twist posts to make some point you're harping on cannot see this.
And you're not gonna do anything with me... Belittling comments like that show you up for the kind of person you truly are.

You know nothing of my attitude. I've been very careful to keep my responses general and not attack anyone personally. "No one has EVER called me "EDDIE!" If my response to you sounded condescending, it's because I MEANT to be condescending. My, my aren't we sensitive. It's just words Billy. Did I trigger you?

 

[Edward]

I've read enough of your crap, Eddie. You're blocked.

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!

I guess I win by default! Yea!

 

[VMAXXIMUM]

You know I'm all for healthy discourse but this is out of control. I liked this forum a lot better when our main disagreements were about what oil was the best. Social media and this administration are dragging this country to places previously unthinkable. We have a crisis in this country but it's not at the border it's firmly within our own "walls". If the left keeps getting lefter and the right keeps getting righter it can only end in ripping apart our democracy.

 

[Kronx]

Yaaaaawn

Yes. Yes. Its only the left who claims there's no border crisis...*yawns*:

GOP Texas Congressman Calls Border Crisis A Myth
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gop-texas-congressman-calls-border-crisis-a-myth

As far as what I suggest for better border security? How about what both Democrats AND Republicans had agreed to when they had CR passed in December as a start? Until Trump got emasculated by Ann Coulter and changed his mind. It had funding for border security. Just not the wall.

-Funds to re-enforce current fencing
-Investing in more drone technology and surveillance
-Funding for more agents

That's seems to have worked in the past. Remember Feb 2018?

"45 year low on illegal border crossings this year. Ice and Border Patrol Agents are doing a great job for our Country. MS-13 thugs being hit hard," - Donald Trump Feb '18.

And I just need to point out I love how you will chant Mexico is going to pay for the wall at rallies all over the country for months and months like trained seals but when someone expects you to actually do what you chanted you consider it a "progressive idea." Hahahaha. That's hilarious.

Your tribe: "Mexico is going to pay for the wall." *hands citizen a piece of paper*
US Citizen: "Whats this?"
Your tribe: "Its a bill for the wall."
US Citizen: "But you JUST said Mexico was going to pay for it?"
Your tribe: *snatches bill out and storms off* "You liberal progressives expecting us to do what WE CHANT is what is ruining this country! THAT'S IT -- SHUT THE GOVERNMENT DOWN! MAGA!"
US Citizen: "So wait... you're going to shut the government down over funding for the wall??"
Your tribe: "Yes! I'm going to shut it down."
US Citizen: "Are you going to own that decision?"
Your tribe: "Yes! I'm going to take the mantle. I will own the shutdown. In fact, border security is so important to me I will be PROUD to own this shutdown."
US Citizen: "Isn't shutting down the government for this wall you said Mexico was going to pay for a bit excessive?"
Your tribe: "WELL YOU TELL ME! IT'S YOUR FAULT!"

It would be almost comical if it wasn't so insane.

 

[Kronx]

It depends on which which house....and exactly what they are voting on. In the House, its a simple majority needed to pass something, and in the senate its 51 OR 60, depending on what they are voting on. Yesterday 60 VOTES were needed to pass ANY of the bills/resolutions. So....even though the republicans still control the senate, with I believe 53, you still wouldnt have had the 60 needed to pass. So, saying that YOUR PARTY controlled what ever, and still couldnt pass.....is misinformation.

GOP controlled House, Senate and White House for 2 years and couldn't get Trumps biggest campaign promise fulfilled. That's not misinformation. That's just fact. Democrats opposing the wall should have surprised no one from the Republican party and there should have been a strategy ready for it. Clearly there wasn't.

 

[Fire-medic]

I believe this is ready for a closed thread. We had common ground on the VMax, no-need to antagonize one-another over differing political beliefs. Nothing said here is gonna change anyone's view, I hope this is soon a closed thread.

 

[Bill Seward]

Agreed. Close it.

 

[Conman]

I believe this is ready for a closed thread. We had common ground on the VMax, no-need to antagonize one-another over differing political beliefs. Nothing said here is gonna change anyone's view, I hope this is soon a closed thread.

But at the same time this IS the Burnout Pit. I don’t like the idea of censoring, as long as the thread is in the right place (and not a hijacking). I’ve been reading the responses and find it interesting to hear different views. Nobody is forcing anyone to view this thread and there aren’t any threats being made to each other. Stifling opinions seems like a bad idea, no matter how constructive they may or may not be.

 

[Fire-medic]

But at the same time this IS the Burnout Pit. I don’t like the idea of censoring, as long as the thread is in the right place (and not a hijacking). I’ve been reading the responses and find it interesting to hear different views. Nobody is forcing anyone to view this thread and there aren’t any threats being made to each other. Stifling opinions seems like a bad idea, no matter how constructive they may or may not be.

I see it as causing hard-feelings between and among members. A Libertarian might say, "let everyone have access to whatever mind-altering substances they want, if you don't you're stifling freedom of choice." I don't want people shooting up in my neighborhood, smoking methamphetamine, and exhibiting whatever socially-oppressive, drug-influenced behavior they do because of their consumption.

Here, I don't want someone saying, "that prick, he's for Trump, I need parts but I'm damned if I give that guy my money!" or "OMG, he's for AOC, I want the used pick-up coil he's selling, but he can go lick Hillary's cankles before I give him my money!"

I assume you understand my reasoning.