Morley's Muscle Kit and Nitrous Install

[gamorg02]

ok so found this from holley:

Do You Know How Much Fuel Your Engine/Nitrous
System Needs?
To help figure out the size of fuel pump needed
for a given application, we have supplied a
formula for you.
Your pump must be capable of maintaining the
minimum GPH at working pressure under all conditions
HP divided by 2 = lb./hr. (pounds per hour)
lb./hr divided by 6 = gallons per hour required (min)
Multiply GPH by 1.15 for safety factor
Example: 600 HP divided by 2 = 300,
300 divided by 6 = 50
50 multiplied by 1.15 = 57.5 (minimum gallons per hour)
(This formula is for gasoline only.)

so say to be on the overly careful side we have my engine which does 120 to the wheel, so say 160 to the crank? if stock 145 does 105 to the wheel..

if no more than a 40 or 50 shot would be used thats 200. so lets even call it 250 HP in total..

so 250/2 = 125

125/6 = 20.83 GPH... + 15% to be safe:

24 GPH...

Or at the minumum which would be 200 HP i think it would be closer to:

~19 GPH..


so i'm thinking if i set my fuel pump up to a bucket or something i should be able to determine its GPH by running it for say 15 seconds straight.

and just for my reference (so i can look back here)

GPH : 19/24
GPM : .32/.4
oz/minute : 40/51
oz/second: .66/.85


hmmmmmmmm..
main page:
http://www.holley.com/TechService/Library.asp

fuel pump link:
http://www.holley.com/data/TechService/Technical/Fuel Pump Formula for NOS.pdf

 

[KJShover]

Both the small NX and NOS motorcycle system fuel pumps are rated around 18gph @ 4ish psi. They are good for 200hp.

 

[gamorg02]

ok cool. so I need to test the 'flow' (GPH) of the oem, plus the PSI, right? how would I do that, put a pressure gauge inline and block off the other end (or keep the carb bowls full)?

now when you say 200 hp (and holley) do you/they mean the bikes capacity plus the nitrous at the crank?

 

[KJShover]

ok cool. so I need to test the 'flow' (GPH) of the oem, plus the PSI, right? how would I do that, put a pressure gauge inline and block off the other end (or keep the carb bowls full)?

now when you say 200 hp (and holley) do you/they mean the bikes capacity plus the nitrous at the crank?

Put an inline pressure gauge on the pump and let it flow into a container. that way you know the flow rate at what psi. If you just cap the end and let the pump build pressure thats just going to give you the max pressure the pump will produce.

I believe when they say 200 hp in referance to the nitrous pump, they are talking about the shot of squeeze.

The way I'm reading the formula that you posted from holley, it sounds like they are using one pump to feed the engine at a given hp rating.

 

[gamorg02]

Put an inline pressure gauge on the pump and let it flow into a container. that way you know the flow rate at what psi. If you just cap the end and let the pump build pressure thats just going to give you the max pressure the pump will produce.

probably both good numbers to have though eh?

I believe when they say 200 hp in referance to the nitrous pump, they are talking about the shot of squeeze.

would make sense.

The way I'm reading the formula that you posted from holley, it sounds like they are using one pump to feed the engine at a given hp rating.

and it sure sounds that way huh... maybe for the small shots i'm doing the oe fuel pump will work. i bet it can handle that flow, not sure on the pressure though.... we shall see soon.

KJ. thanks for all the help so far man. i'm gonna sleep on all this...

 

[KJShover]

When checking flows and stuff there is all kinds of shit to consider. pipe diameter, bends, manifolds, etc..

I used to know how that shit worked when I was doing the firefighter thing in the late 90's. like 150' of 2.5" hose at 50psi will give you around 45 at the nozzle, kinda thing. I should have paid more attention in hydraulics class. But, I was a jumpseater not an engineer so why bother eh?

Maybe one of the engineer types will step up with the formulas to help you get the data.
Jeff is freakin rainman when it comes to numbers, so hopfully he'll have what ya need.

Here is a site with a few formulas and what not to get you going.
http://www.lakemonitors.com/flowrate_conversions.htm

 

[gamorg02]

When checking flows and stuff there is all kinds of shit to consider. pipe diameter, bends, manifolds, etc..

I used to know how that shit worked when I was doing the firefighter thing in the late 90's. like 150' of 2.5" hose at 50psi will give you around 45 at the nozzle, kinda thing. I should have paid more attention in hydraulics class. But, I was a jumpseater not an engineer so why bother eh?

Maybe one of the engineer types will step up with the formulas to help you get the data.
Jeff is freakin rainman when it comes to numbers, so hopfully he'll have what ya need.

Here is a site with a few formulas and what not to get you going.
http://www.lakemonitors.com/flowrate_conversions.htm

thanks KJ. i'll take a look! yea, i'm hoping i can do a somewhat simple test with the OE pump to see if she can handle the load of both... maybe i could call holley or Nitrous express to see if they have any quick tests, altho they will probably say just use the pump that comes with our kits.

 

[tugla]

think your on the right track garrett, set up a gauge to get your psi and also like KJ said run it into a container and time it for flow rate. If for some reason the psi is too high then easily fixed with regulator but doesn't sound that will be a issue. I like his idea of tapping into the tank and running another line with inline pump. Unless you can get creative and add a little tank on the back to hold some fuel but dont think you want to do that ey.

Do you happin to know the stock line pick-up size in the tank? that would make a difference on flow rate for you, im sure its small, something else to consider if your going to tap into that line for fuel source.

 

[gamorg02]

think your on the right track garrett, set up a gauge to get your psi and also like KJ said run it into a container and time it for flow rate. If for some reason the psi is too high then easily fixed with regulator but doesn't sound that will be a issue. I like his idea of tapping into the tank and running another line with inline pump. Unless you can get creative and add a little tank on the back to hold some fuel but dont think you want to do that ey.

Do you happin to know the stock line pick-up size in the tank? that would make a difference on flow rate for you, im sure its small, something else to consider if your going to tap into that line for fuel source.

pressure can't be too high (as far as I know) since the fogger nozzles will control flow at that point...

that was another concern of mine. if i tap into the existing fuel line before the OEM pump to run the other pump, can the OEM lines and fittings handle what both would be pulling at WOT? maybe the nitrous pump would be fine but i don't want my carbs to go lean either haha. that'd be just as bad i imagine..

 

[tugla]

also whats the duty cycle of the stock pump?? can it handle being on more. i know you wont have lots of Nos but still dont want to over tax the pump and burn it out. you going to have a couple of little sneeky peet tanks for the nos?

 

[gamorg02]

also whats the duty cycle of the stock pump?? can it handle being on more. i know you wont have lots of Nos but still dont want to over tax the pump and burn it out. you going to have a couple of little sneeky peet tanks for the nos?

i'm not worried about it 'being on too much' as we're talking about maybe 10 seconds more per day once i get the inital funn-ness out of my system.

no idea on tanks yet.

 

[gamorg02]

does anyone have some jets i could borrow? looking for 4x 14's and 16's right now...

or does anyone know if something like this is worth it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/8-NI...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

or like carb parts is it questionable to get anything but OE to the nitrous manufacturer

 

[KJShover]

or like carb parts is it questionable to get anything but OE to the nitrous manufacturer

You can get jets that are made from different manufacturers. Just make sure you get the right kind for your nozzles. there are different models out there, Some are flared, some are funnel.

 

[one2dmax]

I think the stock pump works even for the 200rwhp vmax engines. We've never swapped out the pump. When we installed a system we just "T'd" into the fuel line prior to the filter though even after would be fine. Jeff's custom hollowed out bolt worked well I believe. Can't remember what the drain screw size is but could maybe make a custom one from that.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

I think the stock pump works even for the 200rwhp vmax engines. We've never swapped out the pump. When we installed a system we just "T'd" into the fuel line prior to the filter though even after would be fine. Jeff's custom hollowed out bolt worked well I believe. Can't remember what the drain screw size is but could maybe make a custom one from that.

Sean

i'm still considering using the OEM pump, have you seen it used before? or is that what you meant?

 

[one2dmax]

The last system we used (not counting the one we have here with a modified tank) used the OEM pump to do it's work as well as the nitrous pump to do it's job (so we used 2 pumps). The fazer we have we did the same thing. Basically "T'd" into the system prior to the filter and ran both pumps pulling fuel from the same line from the tank.

We pulled 196rwhp on the Fazer the last dyno but will be re-verifying it again this June.

Sean

 

[gamorg02]

The last system we used (not counting the one we have here with a modified tank) used the OEM pump to do it's work as well as the nitrous pump to do it's job (so we used 2 pumps). The fazer we have we did the same thing. Basically "T'd" into the system prior to the filter and ran both pumps pulling fuel from the same line from the tank.

We pulled 196rwhp on the Fazer the last dyno but will be re-verifying it again this June.

Sean

gotcha. lets see what i can do...

hey does it make sense my solenoids are pulling almost 7 amps and the fuel pump did barely 1 amp (dry)?

 

[gamorg02]

re-fitted the airbox. much cleaner. now to do the fuel lines..

leak tested. good to go.

 

[one2dmax]

Looks good so far!

 

[gamorg02]

thnx for the quick chat last night sean. It def would have leaked. i forgot the blue bottle u sent had a bit of nitrous left in it so i was able to bench test the system. def hear a leak at first, tightened down and no more leaks (that I could hear at least), which I assume is pretty good.