Good news to go with my terrible news.

[GREEN light BLITZ]

Good news is i found a motor for my Max. I put it in and fired I up. Sounds GREAT! Noticed quickly the water pump was spitting from the weeper. Ran the new motor bout 10 minutes. Result was TONS of water in the oil. Hoping the water pump was bunk I swapped pumps. Put fresh oil in it and fired it back up. Still looks like milk through my clear clutch.

Can't be a back head gasket. Collant levels have not dropped and temp regulates fine. No leaks or weird sounds.

So did the soon to die water pump fill it with water and I just need to flush it all out?
Or am I just lucky enough to get screwed with a used motor?

Any suggestion would help. Thanks guys


.

 

[naughtyG]

Defo needs a good flush or three. Remember that when you drain the oil, some always stays in the motor so it will take a few flushes to get all the muck out (or at least dilute it enough). Get yourself a few gallons of cheap light oil and get flushing, then refill with your oil of choice and hopefully you'll be all good!

 

[davesax36]

You won't have gotten the oil from the area around the middle gear cover with a regular oil change. There could be junk just sitting over there that gets mixed back in when you start it up again. i'd go to walmart and get 5 gallons of whatever diesel oil you like and change it/run it four or five times. You might get enough of it out by then. Or you can open that middle gear drain bolt on the side stand and get a bit of it, or take the middle gear cover off and leave it on the side stand.

 

[GREEN light BLITZ]

I pulled the mid gear cover and strait coolant fell out followed by milk confirming your advice. The motor sounds awesome so I can't imagine it being critical but my paranoid self is fearing the possibilities. I'll continue flushing

 

[davesax36]

Hmmm. See how many more times that happens. If you don't have a stack of middle gear gaskets, just put vaseline (sp?) on the case side of the gasket when you reinstall the cover and it should come off in one piece at least a couple times.

 

[GREEN light BLITZ]

I'm broke as a joke for a week. Buying the motor set the old wallet back hard so I'll flush it again next weekend and continue the method.

So the question begs:
Could the water pump being bad cause the water to get by? Did sloppy methods during the pump swap let it in? How many times has anybody seen cracked blocks or water jackets cause problems like this with no other symptoms?

 

[Fire-medic]

I am gonna offer a bit of advice. Take it or leave it. If I had done this, I might have saved myself a couple of $$grand$$. :bang head:

Before you install your used engine, remove the bottom case half, and measure the big-end rod and crank clearances. This way, you get to take a peek at the reciprocating parts, and also satisfy yourself that there are no excessive clearances, or tell-tale discolorations to your expensive components.

I bought and installed a used engine instead of fixing second gear on my bike when I returned it to the road after not using it for an extended period. The used engine ran fine, no leaks, no oil cloud out the exhaust, no oil puking into the airbox. I put about 1000 miles onto it while I bought parts to do a bolt-on hop-up: COP's, Dynojet Stage 7 carbs, UFO 4/1, new spare-disc PCW clutch friction discs, needed gaskets, etc. When I went to the dyno to do a baseline run so I could know what each mod was worth, the engine expired within a couple of miles of leaving the table.

If I had torn-down the engine, (just removing the bottom case half, and side covers as necessary) I believe I would have had a chance to make a visual inspection of the conn rod bearings and main bearings, and using Plastigage, would have found any excessive clearances, before subjecting the engine to the dyno. Here's the thread:
http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=21873&highlight=dyno+dilemma

If you bought a used engine, I suggest you try to see what condition you have by splitting the cases. It may save you from having to buy another one!:confused2:

My used engine didn't knock (until I left the dyno and was headed home), smoke, or overheat. It didn't pollute the oil w/coolant. The used engine shipped was a grand, and getting it installed and running was a half-grand, which included some other things. Then to take two engines w/issues and to make one good one, w/an undercut tranny, and a valve job, including a light surfacing of the heads, w/me doing the engine removal and reinstall, was another $1600. So, that's >$3K right there.

Yes a pain in the butt for you to remove and reinstall the engine, but I'll never do a swap w/o looking inside and measuring things. Why, I coulda-bought a set of Sean's Carrozzerias instead!:biglaugh:

 

[dannymax]

I'm broke as a joke for a week. Buying the motor set the old wallet back hard so I'll flush it again next weekend and continue the method.

So the question begs:
Could the water pump being bad cause the water to get by? Did sloppy methods during the pump swap let it in? How many times has anybody seen cracked blocks or water jackets cause problems like this with no other symptoms?

Yes, there are two seals, an oil seal and a mechanical seal....if they are bad oil and water can mix.

 

[jagco1]

Man what a pain in the rear, I hope you get it work out... I friend of mind had chevy motor rebuild to 572 should have been a 9s car in the 1/4 mile. He was only getting high 11s out of the car. He brought the motor over to me. I pull the motor and check it for him. Man the was a 572. But not head work no over size valves, wrong piston, Stock cam regrind, No high flow oil pump. And a lot more should have been dun. "O" there should have been 950cfm. But was re-work 750 cfm that look brand new. My friend paid $7500.00 for the motor. This was 4 week ago. He is taken the guy to court. I had 454 60 over close chamber motor that was my Dads that was in 1957 no mad chevy as my dad would call it. I had the motor for about 25 years. I let him run at Budds Creek Drag Strip big race event they had. To make story short sometime it's just hard to trust people do right.

I really hope you get it work with no cost to you.

 

[davesax36]

Man what a pain in the rear, I hope you get it work out... I friend of mind had chevy motor rebuild to 572 should have been a 9s car in the 1/4 mile. He was only getting high 11s out of the car. He brought the motor over to me. I pull the motor and check it for him. Man the was a 572. But not head work no over size valves, wrong piston, Stock cam regrind, No high flow oil pump. And a lot more should have been dun. "O" there should have been 950cfm. But was re-work 750 cfm that look brand new. My friend paid $7500.00 for the motor. This was 4 week ago. He is taken the guy to court. I had 454 60 over close chamber motor that was my Dads that was in 1957 no mad chevy as my dad would call it. I had the motor for about 25 years. I let him run at Budds Creek Drag Strip big race event they had. To make story short sometime it's just hard to trust people do right.

I really hope you get it work with no cost to you.

Makes me wish I knew more about motors. I understand all the concepts, just not the particulars. I need to hang out with more speed shop guys.

 

[one2dmax]

You can get coolant from a few different area's. Most of the time it's from the pump seal and once it's in the engine it takes a number of flush and fills to get it all out. It can get in from:
Head Gaskets (though it more often gets combustion pressures pushing into the coolant and forcing it out the overflow)
Waterpump (common)
Cross Joints (one in each head and multiple orings that can leak)

 

[SpecOps13]

This really SUCKS.

My 89 does the opposite of yours. I get a little oil in the coolant. The Oil Pump
is definitely modified for more flow, Oil Pressure is higher than my 94 at any given
RPM. Sean told me that this condition is quite normal because of the pump mod.
Scared the crap out of me but it's been 3 years and no problems other than needing
to skim the oil out of the coolant overflow tank every 6 months or so.

 

[KJShover]

Give it a few good flushes, then after you put some more oil in there, add about a shot glass or two of seafoam. should clear up the excess water. I've done this after blowing a head gasket and a few of us have done it on snowmachines that fell through the ice. It seems to do the trick pretty well. Then a little while later of mild riding and the oil looks normal again, drain it out and put in new oil with about 3/4 to 1 shot glass of seafoam and your good to go.

 

[davesax36]

I like the way you measure, KJ. Why think in ounces? A shot means so much more.

 

[06VMAXIMUS]

Glad to hear your resurrecting the bike Ace!

 

[GREEN light BLITZ]

She's running like a champ. After looking more in depth it was all my bad. I didn't drain the rad before the pump swap and while I fumbled to pop the water elbow off the front side all the coolant I didn't drain ran into the case on the backside. Lesson learned. No more shortcuts.

 

[KJShover]

I like the way you measure, KJ. Why think in ounces? A shot means so much more.

I have a shot glass, and a jigger/pony combo in the garage to measure liquids in.