Lost clutch pressure... twice.

[FootNote]

Alright I wasnt sure what thread to jump in with this so I am just making another one. (Because we alllll love sifting through 100's of threads looking for the one that helps us)

Anyhow, back story: Shortly after getting my vmax, I put it down, "gently" in the grass. We picked it up (Me and a random person passing) picked it up and I tried firing it up, it started just fine, Drove it to where I was going, stopped, came back an hour or so later it wouldn't start because the wiring got knocked loose to the battery.

Fixed it went for a ride with my friends, probably rode it for a good three hours or so. Got home, and the next day I fired it up and when I went to put it in first there was no pressure in the clutch and when shifted down it lurched forward and stalled out. After that I came to the wonderful people on this site and they told me to bleed out the clutch fluid and told me how to. I did and it was fixed. About 4 hours worth of riding later (over the next three days) It went out again. This time while I was riding. I actually had to get a tow back to my place. There was no real gradual decrece in pressure during the ride outside maybe 3-5 minutes before I pulled over.

I opened up the master clutch on my handle bar and there was hardly any fluid in it. One of my first thoughts was that some did leak out when I changed the handle bar, but not nearly this much.

So... I am losing pressure somewhere and I am clueless...

Thanks.

 

[Thevmaxrider]

Park the bike on a clean piece of cardboard. Refill the master cylinder and rebleed, taking care to not spill on the cardboard. Once bled out seal the system up (put the cover on the master cylinder res.). Pull in the clutch lever and tie it back to the grip. Now look under the bike and see if you have fluid leaking under where the bleed nipple is (this is where the slave cylinder is). If it is leaking underneath you need to rebuild the slave cylinder, if it is not leaking there leave it overnight and check the fluid levels and ride it to see if it recurs.

 

[tugla]

might have cracked the line or cut the hose somewhere when it fell, sounds like a leak. maybe also a leaking bleed nipple.

 

[FootNote]

Park the bike on a clean piece of cardboard. Refill the master cylinder and rebleed, taking care to not spill on the cardboard. Once bled out seal the system up (put the cover on the master cylinder res.). Pull in the clutch lever and tie it back to the grip. Now look under the bike and see if you have fluid leaking under where the bleed nipple is (this is where the slave cylinder is). If it is leaking underneath you need to rebuild the slave cylinder, if it is not leaking there leave it overnight and check the fluid levels and ride it to see if it recurs.

Thanks. I will give that a try Saturday. Getting late and working all day tomorrow.

Thanks.

 

[FootNote]

An update.

Alright the other day I tried bleeding the air out with no success. I was annoyed and kind of rushed it, so today I went out to try again but stopped and made sure I bleed alllll the air out from the top by slowly squizeing the clutch in and letting the air bubbles out. (I did this last time not not nearly as long) and by the time there was no air, I was done. I didn't even need to bleed it out.

So once again I can shift on my bike. Sadly this still does not answer the question of why I lost it. (unless it really was simply due to me having changed the handle bar and air getting in the top while it was upside down.)

 

[[email protected]]

If you master went upside down while changing bars then, yes, that would most certainly lead to air in the line. Moreso if the fluid level was a bit low.

 

[SpecOps13]

Hey, atleast it's fixed......:biglaugh:

 

[FootNote]

If you master went upside down while changing bars then, yes, that would most certainly lead to air in the line. Moreso if the fluid level was a bit low.

I really hope that's all it is, but I hate fixing it and not being *100%* sure what caused it.

 

[FootNote]

If you master went upside down while changing bars then, yes, that would most certainly lead to air in the line. Moreso if the fluid level was a bit low.

Lol yeah. I rode it in to work which is a 45 min drive so I was a bit worried so I put a screw driver, break fluid and my 8mm wrentch in my bag and hoped for the best. Lol no problems.. So I hope the story is the same in the morning.

 

[SpecOps13]

I just changed out all the brake fluid in my 98 Dodge SS/T. I was getting a Brake Failure and ABS Fault. The fluid was discolored so I was pretty sure it'd gone bad. Works fine now, I replaced ALLLL of the fluid and it's as clear as water now....


When I bought my 94 VMax, I lost the clutch, replaced the fluid there and all was well...


It happens.
Dave

PS: I wasn't so lucky with the 89, I had to rebuild the Master Cylinder there..

 

[Vmaxer-4-Life]

I'm having a similar problem except bleed only helps temporarily. I have bled it many times and even put a SS braided line on but when I start it up I loose my pressure. There are no leaks that I can see is the problem. Any ideas?
thankd

 

[SpecOps13]

Vmaxer-4-Life: Sounds like you may need to rebuild your Clutch Master / Slave or both... If it bleeds well at the Slave Fitting, I would think it was the Slave Cylinder.
If it doesn't get pressure there and slobbers or drips out, the Master Cylinder. In any case, it could be partly both... Hope this sounds logical.

 

[Vmaxer-4-Life]

Sounds logical Spec, thanks, I was leaning toward the slave but never caught any leakage. Where is the best place to get the slave rebuild parts from?

 

[SpecOps13]

CaptainKyle can get them for you pretty reasonable.. I bought the Master Rebuild for my 89 from him, don't remember the exact price but not a lot. Good Luck on the repair. Just be sure the new parts go in the same as the old ones come out. Send a PM to Kyle: http://www.vmaxforum.net/member.php?u=3311

 

[FootNote]

Alright, third time is the charm.

My bike was sitting around for a few days and when I went to get on it I pulled on the cluch and there was absoultly no pressure in it so this time it lasted a week and a half or so? My plan is to bleed it again and get it to the shop (about a minute away) and have them do the diagnostic so they can tell me what is actually wrong with it, now unless there is no real price diffrence between them doing diagnostic work, and fixing it then I will be looking forward to fixing it myself.

 

[jfeagins]

BLEED THAT MASTER STARTING AT THE BANJO BOLT THIS TIME. Sounds like trapped air is working its way back up to the high point - aka banjo bolt area.

My bet is that you will get a great big air bubble out of it from there, just be sure NOT to disturb the clutch lever UNTIL AFTER you got that banjo loose and a rag under it, and EVERYTHING PROPERLY COVERED.

Remember to work that lever very slowly any time you have the lid off as it can/will back splash a shot of DOT fluid up and out of the bowl.

 

[FootNote]

BLEED THAT MASTER STARTING AT THE BANJO BOLT THIS TIME. Sounds like trapped air is working its way back up to the high point - aka banjo bolt area.

My bet is that you will get a great big air bubble out of it from there, just be sure NOT to disturb the clutch lever UNTIL AFTER you got that banjo loose and a rag under it, and EVERYTHING PROPERLY COVERED.

Remember to work that lever very slowly any time you have the lid off as it can/will back splash a shot of DOT fluid up and out of the bowl.

ok, I have seen people talk about the banjo bolt a few times, but I still have yet to see what it is (yes I have seen photos of it.. just cant see it on my bike.

As far as getting the air out of the top, I do that also, exactly how you described it, minus loosening the banjo bolt.

From people I have talked to I need to replace the push lever seal. So I am about to order that probably from Sean if I am ordering anything else.

 

[jfeagins]

Push lever seals do nothing but keep outside contaminants from fouling up the area where the push rod pushes on the internals of the master cylinder. Very good idea to keep that seal in good order. I wasn't aware it could be purchased separately from a whole master cylinder kit though. If air were being introduced there, I suspect you'd be seeing a leak coming out of there as well.

As far as your banjo bolt, it should be at the very top of your clutch line where it fastens onto the handlebar clutch master cylinder. It should be covered with a flexible rubber doo hickey. Just carefully pry that flexible rubber back and out of the way to get a wrench on the banjo bolt.

If/sometimes when you have air in that master cylinder, and you bleed normally, you can be pushing air downward through the fluid line. After you stop bleeding, that small amount of air can and will find it's way back to the top and usually stops at the banjo. If you take off and start bleeding the whole system again, you may not get that bubble of air all the way out at the bottom, and the process will start again and then you find yourself getting back on the bike some morning to a sloppy clutch again.

I've noticed mine will do that after the days warm significantly. I always thought it was because the air bubbles might be able to migrate upwards through warmer fluid better than colder fluid. I usually change mine out during the Feb/Mar months when outside temps are colder and I've ran into this problem more than a few times over the years. I ALWAYS FIND THAT BUBBLE UP BY THE BANJO BOLT AND BLEEDING THERE REMEDIES THE PROBLEM FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON.

I've also learned to take better care NOT to introduce air into the lines during my annual fluid changeouts over the years. It seems an easy thing to do. I suspect if you reverse bleed from the bottom up, as many forum members here do, there probably wouldn't ever be this problem to begin with, but I can't vouch for that as I don't use that method.

...........just my two cents on clutch fluid bleeding.....

 

[FootNote]

Push lever seals do nothing but keep outside contaminants from fouling up the area where the push rod pushes on the internals of the master cylinder. Very good idea to keep that seal in good order. I wasn't aware it could be purchased separately from a whole master cylinder kit though. If air were being introduced there, I suspect you'd be seeing a leak coming out of there as well.

Ah ok. Well I called the local Yamaha shop and I told him what my problem is. And right off the bat he came up with the push lever seals. Now this is the second guy (at the same shop) who has told me this. I am not going to lie, I am pretty ignorent when it comes to bikes, this is all a learning process for me.

As far as your banjo bolt, it should be at the very top of your clutch line where it fastens onto the handlebar clutch master cylinder. It should be covered with a flexible rubber doo hickey. Just carefully pry that flexible rubber back and out of the way to get a wrench on the banjo bolt.

Ok, I know exactly what your talking about now. I have seen it but the photos I have seen where of aftermarket banjo bolts not on the bike so thats why I was getting confused.

If/sometimes when you have air in that master cylinder, and you bleed normally, you can be pushing air downward through the fluid line. After you stop bleeding, that small amount of air can and will find it's way back to the top and usually stops at the banjo. If you take off and start bleeding the whole system again, you may not get that bubble of air all the way out at the bottom, and the process will start again and then you find yourself getting back on the bike some morning to a sloppy clutch again.

I've noticed mine will do that after the days warm significantly. I always thought it was because the air bubbles might be able to migrate upwards through warmer fluid better than colder fluid. I usually change mine out during the Feb/Mar months when outside temps are colder and I've ran into this problem more than a few times over the years. I ALWAYS FIND THAT BUBBLE UP BY THE BANJO BOLT AND BLEEDING THERE REMEDIES THE PROBLEM FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON.

I've also learned to take better care NOT to introduce air into the lines during my annual fluid changeouts over the years. It seems an easy thing to do. I suspect if you reverse bleed from the bottom up, as many forum members here do, there probably wouldn't ever be this problem to begin with, but I can't vouch for that as I don't use that method.

...........just my two cents on clutch fluid bleeding.....

Ok I think we are on the same page on this. When I go to the bleed my line I go to straigten the bike out take the top off of the master cylender and slowly squeze the clutch in and out, watch the bubbles come out, after a while I saw that when I squezed the clutch instead of air coming up, it was shooting up fluid, and so after then I started bleeding it.

..... I think I just had a eurika moment.

Now what if... what if.... the banjo bolt is loose and thats where I am getting air in my line? Now I do remember looking at the banjo bolt and not really messing with it, I dont remember it being loose but who knows.

 

[tugla]

same answer from same shop??? well the outside seal is just that a outside seal to keep crap out. the seal that makes pressure is on the piston on the inside. so if you do a master rebuild(think kit is 20 bucks , ive bought two of them recently) and save rebuild, check the line or upgrade to SS as long as master is not worn out everything should work great afterwards. you can find used masters on ebay but condition unknown. new ones about 90-100 bucks.