Clutch ball bearing removal?

[Angelo]

Hi, I'm desperate for guidance here. My 96 Vmax stage 7 is a daily rider and she's been out of commision for 2 weeks.
I'm forced to use a car:bang head:

A noise coming from the clutch turned out to be a ball bearing. The one behind the clutch basket.

I have removed springs, plates, nut, basket etc. and can see the dameged bearing. The metal "strip" that holds the balls is mostly recovered in the oil. I've removed the sump and found most the pieces although I think I'll find more once I get the bearing out.

Questions:-
1) There is a half moon bracket holding the bearing in with three star screws. Can't get the screws to budge. Any trick here or is it just tight?
2) Once the bracket is off, how do I pull he bearing? my CD manual is not very detailed?

The dealership here can get me the bearing and gaskets in 2 days, but aren't very helpful with advice as they have their workshop which is my last resort due to finances..
Any help here will be much appreciated.

BTW. I'm in Johannesburg, Souh Africa


Tks... Angelo

 

[one2dmax]

Look at this picture of one of our undercut transmissions. There is a retaining wire that will prevent the bearing from coming out (you use a manual "hammer" impact driver to get the screws loose.)

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...2831818678.169018.282702488678&type=1&theater

Here's the block that you can see the slot for the retainer:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1308358678.147336.282702488678&type=1&theater

The engine will need to be removed and cases split open for access. The heads and even valve covers don't have to come off but there is still a lot of work involved.

 

[Angelo]

Hi there and thanks.
cant believe how quick we get responses and help on this forum.

Was expecting I'd have to use an impact driver but didn't want to chance doing damage.

I was hoping of not having to remove motor and split the case but seems I don't have a choice. Hopfully there's no more damage just a couple extra gaskets required.

Things aren't looking good. Only have a few free hours on Sundays.

Hope to identify all spares this Sunday, source during the week and assemble the following Sunday.
That's best case

-Angelo

 

[Angelo]

Hi. Can't take it much more.

Having withdrawel symptoms every morning starting up the cage.

Motor is is out and only one bearing retainer is still on (didn't have a #40 torx) before I can split the casing.

I have a question. cd manual has a list of components that have to be removed. What is the bare minimum?
Do I really need to remove starter, oil pump, etc. etc.

More importantly, does anybody have any idea why the bearing failed? Oil level was fine.
Other than bearing, the only other damage I found is the nylon oil pump drive gear. The teeth are damaged. (Remember case is not yet split so havn't checked everything)
I'm assuming the damage was from the pieces of metal coming from the broken up bearing ribbon cage.

Your comments are welcome.

Tks... Angelo

 

[satariel666]

Some things dont need to be removed(not many) however, for you safety and good cleaning its always good to disassemble it totally(after bearing failure).

Bearings like everything else can worn - its nothing unusual.

 

[Angelo]

Thanks! satariel666 and one2dmax for the detailed photos.

I have stripped and split the case. Saw for myself that most components had to be removed as they were attached "accross" the two halves.

The spares have arrived after quite a wait, and I'm about to start assembly.

Any advise, tricks are welcome.

Some questions:-

As its expensive and I didn't have oil pressure failure, I won't be replacing the oil pump. Is there any servicing I can do?
Can I removed the sieve to clean, by bending the rim out and then back again?

should I apply any silicone, grease, etc., to new gaskets?

There is a rod about 70mm by diam 10mm (from memory) that I pulled out from the side of the casing that had a broken o-ring. Manual doesn't show this. Does anyone know the dimentions or how I ask for it from Yamaha?

I found a small "ball" in the oil. Think it came from the end of a thin long push rod by the clutch.
Can anyone confirm and suggest how to make sure it stays in place when I assemble?

ANY OTHER ADVICE from your experiences is welcome.


Thanks
Angelo

1996 VMAX Stage 7 (The red one wih the chequered tail piece!)

 

[bazwell]

Hi Angelo,

Look at this picture.
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1985/V-MAX%20-%20VMX1200N/CLUTCH/parts.html

The ball is part number 23. Is the rod number 22? This rod is much longer than 70mm. I think you mean number 20. It has an o-ring (number 21).

If you look down at part 21, it is obsolete, but it is quite easy to find an o-ring that fits it at a hardware store.

The ball bearing can just be pushed into the hole before you put part number 20 in. Make sure the long rod (22) is in first.

 

[[email protected]]

I've got nothing on the oil pump screen.

You may want to check out the "orange o ring" on the oil gallery elbow. http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?p=29825
Seems that its a common problem to find this oring out of place.

Morleys Muscle sells a kit that increases oil pressure and volume and also includes a different o ring. Cycle One Off sells a plastic spacer to keep the elbow pressed up in the block. Boxenstopp sells a metal bracket to keep the elbow up in the block.

If you did not want to buy the kit from Morleys Muscle you could take the pump apart and shim the bypass spring to increase pressure.

The ball for the clutch shouldn't be a problem. Once the motor is back together assemble the clutch except for the pressure plate, install the long push rod, grease up the ball and stick it in, then install the short push rod, and then the pressure plate. Look at a newer parts diagram for the part # on the oring if the one for your year bike is obsolete

Not sure what the rod with and o-ring is that you refer to. The only thing I can think it would be is the short push rod that pushes on the pressure plate. Just look on the parts diagram at the clutch section and you should see the yamaha part # on there.

 

[sdt354]

How many miles on that engine Angelo? You might as well do the Morley pump kit while your in there. It comes with a new pump gear you need. I don't know what happened, but the Morley kit provides more pressure, hot at idle, and volume is increased.
I'd be uneasy about metal chips somewhere. I think I'd do a goood pump disassenbly at the least. And the best cleaning I could. Best of luck. Pics if you can?
Steve-o

Hi, I'm desperate for guidance here. My 96 Vmax stage 7 is a daily rider and she's been out of commision for 2 weeks.
I'm forced to use a car:bang head:

 

[gamorg02]

the screen just popped off on mine and i cleaned it. it was pretty clogged.

 

[one2dmax]

You can bend the screen in the locking area's and get it off. Note the direction the arrow is before removal. Then clean it and reinstall and tap the locks back into place. Our HD kit would be easy to do while the engine is out and a worth upgrade. If you have the cylinder heads off our ARP head studs would also be a good upgrade.

Depending on the year (1994 I see in your signature) I hope you have the upgraded shift drum with milled shift segment as opposed to the stamped segment.

I simply put the ball in place after I have put the slave on and long push rod in place. Then put the pressure "Hat" short shaped push rod in. Oil flows through there so there isn't really a need to grease it.

Sean

 

[Angelo]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the info. regarding the clutch rod and ball. I think I understand now with all your detailed explanatiuons.
Some of you also mention a pump kit or shimming the pump spring.

"If you did not want to buy the kit from Morleys Muscle you could take the pump apart and shim the bypass spring to increase pressure."

I think I should do this. Does anyine have the shim measurements for me? The kit comes with all the gasket for oil pan, etc. and I already have bought these.

A new problem I have is with crankshaft/balancer shaft alignment.
The mark on the balancer gear is very clear but cant find the one on the crank gear. Is there something else I can use to line the 2 shafts up?
I unfortunately removed the balancer before marking positions as the manual showed that there are alignment marks.

Tks.. Angelo (Unhappy cage driver)

 

[bazwell]

A new problem I have is with crankshaft/balancer shaft alignment.
The mark on the balancer gear is very clear but cant find the one on the crank gear. Is there something else I can use to line the 2 shafts up?
I unfortunately removed the balancer before marking positions as the manual showed that there are alignment marks.

Tks.. Angelo (Unhappy cage driver)

I had the same issue recently Angelo. The solution is here --> http://www.vmaxforum.net/showthread.php?t=20201 :biglaugh:

 

[Angelo]

Thanks bazwell - photos are perfect. Can't wait to continue tonight.

BTW. Also saw a slight paint/scuff mark on one of the teeth but wasn't prepared to take a chance to align to this mark.
I will check if this mark does line up with a setup as per the photos.

 

[bazwell]

No problem.

I don't have any measurement for the oil pump shim, as I haven't ever done it.
Nobody gave that answer, so I'll give an opinion.

The logic is to place a washer behind the relief valve spring, which makes the spring stronger, and therefore increases the maximum oil pressure allowed.

I personally would not do this mod. iI will not increase oil pressure at the time when the oil pressure is low.
It only increases the maximum oil pressure, which only really helps to blow out "the dreaded o-ring".
If the engine is badly worn out, the oil pressure relief valve does nothing. The oil pressure is lost by worn bearings and worn oil pump. The relief valve has no opportunity to work!


Have fun! :biglaugh:

(Careful, the oil pump mounting bolts are small and strip easily! :sad2

 

[one2dmax]

The washer we use is .063" thick but anything that allows the spring to seat still will work. IT won't increase low end pressure that's where our overdrive gear that comes with our kit works. It adds one tooth and makes the pump spin faster. You've also got to spacer the pump out to account for the extra diameter of that drive gear.

As far as picture of the alignment of the crank and counterbalancer. The last 2 pictures in the Muscle Engines folder in our Morleys Muscle Facebook will show you want you need:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.392831818678.169018.282702488678&type=1

Sean

 

[Angelo]

Thanks for the link to the photos guys, I think I have the alignment right now. As to shimming, I've decided not to do based on both Bazwel and Sean's comments and advice.

I will stll be careful with the small bolts as I think I should still strip and clean the oil pump.

BTW. Is it correct that 2 bearings , main axle and drive axle only have 1 (or half circle) positioning circlip each?
The manual also says to insert the circlip into the lower crank case groove and doesn't mention the upper case which also has a groove.
Somehow this doesn't seem right.


As always, appreciate all the help.
Angelo

 

[one2dmax]

1 Clip each. I tend to put the clip on the bearing such that it overlaps the top and bottom when assembled but this should make absolutely no difference. Pay more attention to the anti rotation pins that stick out of the bearings and line up into groves/notches in the case.

Sean

 

[bazwell]

Ditto what Sean said.

I put the clips in the bottom.
Somehow those clips and the meshing of the gears meant that I could turn it over and put it on block without anything falling out. I think the books told me to lower the whole engine onto the gearbox...? No way!! Much easier upside-down. :biglaugh:

Before you put the two halves back together it is very easy to check all the gears work properly.

 

[Angelo]

Hope to put things back together on the weekend and hope to have good news to post on Monday.

Any suggestions on lubrication to use on assembly, or do you use the same oil you top up with?


Angelo (Non running 94 VMAX:damn angry: but getting there )