Starter clutch going bad?

[Redbone]

My memory tells me that the 4 brush starter motors were put into model years 1990 and newer. Is my memory correct?
I had a couple instances of starter sounding like a "box of rocks "when trying to start, but since last winter when I made some electrical improvements I haven't had a issue. On a side note, I now also have a PC680 battery. So would it be safe to say that I don't have a issue?
TYIA

 

[one2dmax]

90 and up is correct though I suspect a few early engines may have the older stater. If the body is a smooth shell with no visible screws then it's the better starter. The problem really isn't as bad as it may sound (or widespread may be the better word).

Sean

 

[RaWarrior]

So I got home the other day, and went out to start the Max, which had been sitting untouched for about 4 months. Turn the key, and fuel pump starts buzzing away. Took three key cycles until the fuel pump slowed down and stopped on its own. Punched the starter, just spun, didn't catch the motor at all. Again, more spinning. Took five tries until it even caught, and even then it spun the motor maybe half a revolution before letting go again. After a few dozen tries, it spun for maybe 1 or 2 revolutions and the motor popped over, but didn't start, then the battery went flat so I just gave up. Temperature was about 25 degrees out. Though when I went to start my Magna, it cranked over for a few seconds then sputtered to life, and after a few seconds of running rough, it smoothed right out and purred away happily. Damn Yamaha and their starter clutches.....

So....time to look at that starter clutch. It looks like the alt cover gasket is "weeping" a bit, though there weren't any drips under it so I probably would have to replace that gasket soon anyway.

Also, I noticed that there was a small puddle of coolant under it. Looking up, it's obviously dripping from the plastic nut on the drain petcock. Anything I can do there to seal it? I tried "tightening" it, but turning it either way from where it was made it drip steadily. Or will I just have to replace it?


So, if I have this straight...
-Drain oil
-Remove alt and middle gear covers
-Yank flywheel (get insurance on rent-a-puller)
-Remove starter clutch bolts, clean off oil and apply loctite
-Reassemble

Seems pretty straightforward, though I'll have to remove the left frame brace, then the crash bar/highway peg first to get the alt cover off. Like I said last summer it was fine 99% of the time, only rarely on a cool morning it might miss once, but then always caught the second time. No "bag of rocks" sound(none now either, though there is maybe a very slight rattle if you listen closely). Hopefully it's just loose bolts, I really don't want to dump another $200 for a new clutch.

I'll go down to the local stealership, and see if I have the privilege of $20 for a gasket now, or if I'll have to wait a week first.

 

[dannymax]

Also, I noticed that there was a small puddle of coolant under it. Looking up, it's obviously dripping from the plastic nut on the drain petcock. Anything I can do there to seal it? I tried "tightening" it, but turning it either way from where it was made it drip steadily. Or will I just have to replace it?

RA, If this is the plastic nut you're referring to, it doesn't tighten, you can spin it 360 either way, doesn't matter. Drain the coolant, remove the phillips holding screw and pull out the plastic nut...be careful, there is a spring loaded detent ball that will pop out if you don't hold it. Replace the o-ring and you should be ok.

Here's the link showing the assembly: Part #29

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm...odel/VMX12/GroupID/240462/Group/RADIATOR_HOSE

 

[one2dmax]

You will want to get both the stator cover gasket as well as the middle gear cover gasket. I have them on hand but with shipping any you save with me will be ate up if it's just the gaskets you need.

The petcock does have an o-ring and it's common for them to leak after sitting and getting cold. Once you get it up and running again the leak will probably stop.

You may end up needing a starter clutch if it's bad enough to spin or you may get lucky and the engagement pins are just gummed up a bit. When you have the clutch off check it for cracks along the outer perimeter. The wheel gear gets flat spots in it too so keep that in mind if the clutch is broken you may want to replace that gear.

Sean

 

[jedi-]

You can do this procedure without draining the oil as noted by Sean.
When I did mine I laid it over on a couple of bags of rags that we use at work, it does save a lot of time.
Take your time fitting the new gasket and make sure all the starter gears are meshing correctly as you refit the cover.

 

[RaWarrior]

If I pull the drain petcock to replace the o-ring, how do I refill it? Just from the bottle next to the air box? Will it have to be bled or does it do that on it's own?

Got a big pulley puller from autozone, hopefully it'll not break. Got an alt cover gasket, but the dealer had to order the one for middle gear.

Assuming I can get it started so I can ride it a few miles to my friends heated garage, I'll tear into it tomorro morning.

 

[RaWarrior]

I finally got the bike to start after probably 10 minutes of trying. I finally discovered that holding the throttle open a tiny bit caused the motor to crank normally.....who knows? But the longer I was working at it, the more noticeable the "bag of rocks" noise got. Now if you press the starter with the engine running, it definetly sounds like a big rock tumbler in there, nasty.

As Sean said, the dripping from the plastic drain stopped after the engine ran for a while. Ran kinda rough at first and hesitated when you gassed it, but after idling for a few minutes it was fine.

Thanks for the tips everyone.

 

[vmaxcruzer]

"Now if you press the starter with the engine running, it definetly sounds like a big rock tumbler in there."

You are kidding right??? Please say you didn't.

 

[gamorg02]

"Now if you press the starter with the engine running, it definetly sounds like a big rock tumbler in there."

You are kidding right??? Please say you didn't.

??

 

[red98vmax]

On a stock Max, hitting the starter button while the bike is running doesn't engage the starter motor at all. You can use the starter button to temporarily turn off the headlights or flash them off and on by hitting the starter multiple times.

 

[[email protected]]

on a stock max, hitting the starter button while the bike is running doesn't engage the starter motor at all. You can use the starter button to temporarily turn off the headlights or flash them off and on by hitting the starter multiple times.

+1

 

[gamorg02]

never though of that. cool to know.

 

[RaWarrior]

If it's in neutral, it will spin the starter freely, always has when the motor is running. Once it's in gear, pressing the starter just cuts the headlight like noted. Same deal on my Magna also.

My point was that you used to just hear the whirr of the motor freewheeling if you pressed it after it was running(never any grinding or anything), now you hear the "bag of rocks", so something's definitely changed in there.

On a side note, you can bypass the speed governors on a lot of cars by turning the key to "start" as you're driving. It works on my F-150, and no, the starter doesn't even spin up, it also works on my friend's Suburban 1500. Just resets the computer and in the process disables the electronic governor.

 

[RaWarrior]

Tore into it yesterday and got it all fixed. The local Auto Zone had a perfect puller to get it done with. I just asked for the "crow's foot" puller. Turned out to be labeled as a harmonic balancer puller, but it worked great.

Flywheel wasn't that bad to get off. Impact the puller bolt until it stopped, smack with hammer, repeat. After the third or fourth time it popped right off. The three bolts on the clutch were loose, and there were some fine scratches where it had obviously been wiggling back and forth for a while. Removed the bolts, cleaned the oil off, applied the red loctite, and re-assembled. I tightened the bolts as much as I could using a regular L shaped hex key and reassembled. Problem solved. No more "missing" when you punch the starter button, no more "bag of rocks" noise.

Took about an hour start to finish. Only parts needed were new gaskets for the alt cover and middle gear cover (and loc-tite).

 

[gamorg02]

Tore into it yesterday and got it all fixed. The local Auto Zone had a perfect puller to get it done with. I just asked for the "crow's foot" puller. Turned out to be labeled as a harmonic balancer puller, but it worked great.

Flywheel wasn't that bad to get off. Impact the puller bolt until it stopped, smack with hammer, repeat. After the third or fourth time it popped right off. The three bolts on the clutch were loose, and there were some fine scratches where it had obviously been wiggling back and forth for a while. Removed the bolts, cleaned the oil off, applied the red loctite, and re-assembled. I tightened the bolts as much as I could using a regular L shaped hex key and reassembled. Problem solved. No more "missing" when you punch the starter button, no more "bag of rocks" noise.

Took about an hour start to finish. Only parts needed were new gaskets for the alt cover and middle gear cover (and loc-tite).

thanks ryan, mines doing the same thing, i have the gaskets so looks like i'll just have to take it apart this winter. no box of rocks, just 'missing'.