Chopcor
Well-Known Member
I would be happy to contribute to this- we need all the support we can get here. Stan
Captain Kyle
- Thread starter Sharky
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Help Support VMAX Forum:
ninjaneer
Well-Known Member
ive been so busy lately and have been hunting down some downtime to post my two cents. so lemme put out the facts as i see them.
1) the value of this forum is knowledge, fraternity, and parts... plain and simple.
2) this forum is not free--the funds, time, and commitment to maintain and keep it up has to come from somewhere... plain and simple.
now admittedly my position is somewhat biased because of everything kyle has done for me and the vmax community, but without this forum, i would not have been able to befriend the Cap. I totally understand both sides' stances-- both parties are correct in their own right, but both have thrown down a gauntlet of principle and pride of which i fear has no neutral territory for amends and compromise.
it is because of this, that i feel that it is really a shame that we lost such a staple and pillar (based on his last fb message to me, his return is a pipe dream) but more regrettably that a good friend's membership turned into a martyrdom that drives home the point that this forum's livelihood rests on the almighty dollar. all the members need to ask themselves how much they would value this forum if the Knowledge and Brotherhood (we all know who they are) packed up and left; and donate accordingly.
Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android
1) the value of this forum is knowledge, fraternity, and parts... plain and simple.
2) this forum is not free--the funds, time, and commitment to maintain and keep it up has to come from somewhere... plain and simple.
now admittedly my position is somewhat biased because of everything kyle has done for me and the vmax community, but without this forum, i would not have been able to befriend the Cap. I totally understand both sides' stances-- both parties are correct in their own right, but both have thrown down a gauntlet of principle and pride of which i fear has no neutral territory for amends and compromise.
it is because of this, that i feel that it is really a shame that we lost such a staple and pillar (based on his last fb message to me, his return is a pipe dream) but more regrettably that a good friend's membership turned into a martyrdom that drives home the point that this forum's livelihood rests on the almighty dollar. all the members need to ask themselves how much they would value this forum if the Knowledge and Brotherhood (we all know who they are) packed up and left; and donate accordingly.
Regards from my Taptalking Hercules Android
Rusty McNeil
Well-Known Member
I doubt Kyle is gonna let anyone pay a vendor fee to get him back on here.
That level of charity would be pride damaging, especially when I suspect its not money but principle driving it.
That level of charity would be pride damaging, especially when I suspect its not money but principle driving it.
wildweasel_pt
Well-Known Member
Im sad to read these lines but im on no ones side as i understand both parties. Of course what Rusty said is the fact and no one bother to think differently. The only option to resolve this is to set rules. An annual fee for every user could be an option as i don't think its fit for a guy that seldom sells parts should be paying a fee for that, its difficult to track and maintain the control. Or whenever a user registers could pay a symbolic fee so we don't have ghost users that only serve to raise the maintenance costs as total users is relevant for the provider fee. The best was if everyone would be willing to drop in a couple bucks. Its cheap and if everyone would do that there would be no problems. There was a thread a while back regarding this subject and there were a lot of guys contributing me included as the info on this site is a money saver to say the least... Let it be on everyones conscience how much this forum (the users) contributed to resolve problems and help saving money on expensive repairs. I only have to thank most of you guys, including the vendors as i think i have a good relationship with you all despite the fact that im on the other side of the world. Several of you helped me much and i do recognize that and recognize that the forum was the tool that allowed me to achieve that... I see this forum as the rental tools that you guys can rent at autozone or similar for your own repairs. Its cheaper than buying tools and its supposed for you guys to pay a fee for using them right? Here i see it as being the same deal... The only difference here is that no one forces you to pay that fee, should be the one thinking of all the trouble and work Buster and the admin team has to do to keep this running and contribute accordingly... Just this...
Diablotin
Well-Known Member
I kind of think it's normal for sellers to have an higher contribution as the forum is a customer base and provided leads.
If the amount mentionned earlier is right. What is 150 $ per year? You wouldn't get it that cheap if you were advertising yourself.
As Fred said, it saved me money by giving me all resources to learn quickly. I don't think I should pay for it but I gladly contribute every year few bucks.
About Kyle, I'm not sure we have all the details there. I just don't get where the issue came from.
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If the amount mentionned earlier is right. What is 150 $ per year? You wouldn't get it that cheap if you were advertising yourself.
As Fred said, it saved me money by giving me all resources to learn quickly. I don't think I should pay for it but I gladly contribute every year few bucks.
About Kyle, I'm not sure we have all the details there. I just don't get where the issue came from.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Kyle & me doing a bike relay to TX, from Davie FL. I got to meet Specops13 (Dave) on this junket, too. That's my $75 boat trailer converted to a flatbed, w/removable stake bed sides (removed). It paid for itself the first time I used it. A tow on a flatbed is $75 to start locally, one of my acquaintances has a mcy tow service, that's what he charges.
Just got off the phone with Kyle. He is done with this forum. A few people have been beating on him for selling parts since the beginning. I know for a fact that Kyle was only helping us with the parts he was selling and not in any way getting rich. He has other forums that he's active on and anyone who wants his phone number can IM/PM me. I'm at a loss over the whole issue.
Changes need to be made here. This was the most Awesome forum ever. Thought I'd be here till I die, now I've run into a brick wall. I have a garage full of parts to sell. Now I'm not so sure I won't end up in the same boat as Kyle if I try.
I was going to try setting up a link in my Signature to the parts available in one of my albums so I can have them always easy to find but I'd likely be busted over that. I've got some thinking to do myself. :sad2::confused2::bang head:
Changes need to be made here. This was the most Awesome forum ever. Thought I'd be here till I die, now I've run into a brick wall. I have a garage full of parts to sell. Now I'm not so sure I won't end up in the same boat as Kyle if I try.
I was going to try setting up a link in my Signature to the parts available in one of my albums so I can have them always easy to find but I'd likely be busted over that. I've got some thinking to do myself. :sad2::confused2::bang head:
I don't think you have to worry about clearing out any used parts you have (or new stuff you bought but aren't going to install). I think the issue here is making a habit of buying bikes to part out as well as making parts or buying parts on a regular basis to sell (much like a company would).
Sean
Sean
I don't think you have to worry about clearing out any used parts you have (or new stuff you bought but aren't going to install). I think the issue here is making a habit of buying bikes to part out as well as making parts or buying parts on a regular basis to sell (much like a company would).
Sean
Sean
ninjaneer
Well-Known Member
from what i've gathered, the key phrase to focus on is "manufactured parts". are you manufacturing/fabbing parts for the purpose of selling them? i don't think pieces/parts/spares you've pulled off your ride fit under this classification. there are folks here that do fabs one-offs and make kits, but are not the source for the purchase. don't get me wrong, i'd love to rewind a few months ago and see kyle active on the forum, this could not have happened to a nicer guy, and he didn't deserve such a fallout, but i think this is where cap got in trouble. all of this over some levers. :-(. the forum is definitely poorer now without his insight and expertise.
but you are right, we as a forum have to rethink this issue. i thought deeply before submitting the following out of fear of retribution and jeapordizing the amity of my fellow forum members. if you access to products at wholesale costs and simply want to pass on the good fortune to a fellow brother at no upcost, are you a vendor if you resell the parts? if you refinish/recondition parts, e.g., polishing, chroming, cleaning, rebuilding, are you not a vendor of such services? granted these parts are not manufactured per se, but surely the service is just a tangible as a boxed-up item. no, what i really think needs to be set is something along the lines of "if you are selling something that is developed or offered under the guise of a business entity with a federally assigned tax id, then you are a vendor"
but you are right, we as a forum have to rethink this issue. i thought deeply before submitting the following out of fear of retribution and jeapordizing the amity of my fellow forum members. if you access to products at wholesale costs and simply want to pass on the good fortune to a fellow brother at no upcost, are you a vendor if you resell the parts? if you refinish/recondition parts, e.g., polishing, chroming, cleaning, rebuilding, are you not a vendor of such services? granted these parts are not manufactured per se, but surely the service is just a tangible as a boxed-up item. no, what i really think needs to be set is something along the lines of "if you are selling something that is developed or offered under the guise of a business entity with a federally assigned tax id, then you are a vendor"
Sean said it much in the same way I would Dave. There is no need to cause panic for our members to think that selling parts, much as we have been doing for years and years is changing at all. It isn't.
If you would like a clearer definition, then I'm sure Gary would be happy to provide one. If there is any worry about a person stepping over their lines all they need to do is talk to Gary, and I believe almost all people who are wondering if they are on the line have reached out.
ninjaneer
Well-Known Member
here's a thought...and it's just a thought
how about whenever someone starts a thread in the "for sale" section, the seller gets prompted with the forum's policy concerning this subject and has to acknowledge (s)he has read it before the allowing to submit. i guess a sticky might do it, but i not sure a sticky will be enough to inform all potential sellers each time an attempt is made to peddle wares. maybe it's over kill, but a sticky will only be glanced over once and soon forgotten over the course of an individual's several "for sale" postings.
unfortunately, this has become too much of an important topic and needs to be addressed with the same level of importance. i don't dismiss that those who feel the need-to-know have probably already taken the necessary steps to ensure their compliance, but to save the forum from any future mishaps by unknowing innocent-mistake-making newbies, perhaps something like what i propose is necessary.
how about whenever someone starts a thread in the "for sale" section, the seller gets prompted with the forum's policy concerning this subject and has to acknowledge (s)he has read it before the allowing to submit. i guess a sticky might do it, but i not sure a sticky will be enough to inform all potential sellers each time an attempt is made to peddle wares. maybe it's over kill, but a sticky will only be glanced over once and soon forgotten over the course of an individual's several "for sale" postings.
unfortunately, this has become too much of an important topic and needs to be addressed with the same level of importance. i don't dismiss that those who feel the need-to-know have probably already taken the necessary steps to ensure their compliance, but to save the forum from any future mishaps by unknowing innocent-mistake-making newbies, perhaps something like what i propose is necessary.
ninjaneer
Well-Known Member
here's a thought...and it's just a thought
how about whenever someone starts a thread in the "for sale" section, the seller gets prompted with the forum's policy concerning this subject and has to acknowledge (s)he has read it before being allowed to submit. i guess a sticky might do it, but i not sure a sticky will be enough to inform all potential sellers each time an attempt is made to peddle wares. maybe it's over kill, but a sticky will only be glanced over once and soon forgotten over the course of an individual's several "for sale" postings.
unfortunately, this has become too much of an important topic and needs to be addressed with the same level of importance. i don't dismiss that those who feel the need-to-know have probably already taken the necessary steps to ensure their compliance, but to save the forum from any future mishaps by unknowing innocent-mistake-making newbies, perhaps something like what i propose is necessary.
how about whenever someone starts a thread in the "for sale" section, the seller gets prompted with the forum's policy concerning this subject and has to acknowledge (s)he has read it before being allowed to submit. i guess a sticky might do it, but i not sure a sticky will be enough to inform all potential sellers each time an attempt is made to peddle wares. maybe it's over kill, but a sticky will only be glanced over once and soon forgotten over the course of an individual's several "for sale" postings.
unfortunately, this has become too much of an important topic and needs to be addressed with the same level of importance. i don't dismiss that those who feel the need-to-know have probably already taken the necessary steps to ensure their compliance, but to save the forum from any future mishaps by unknowing innocent-mistake-making newbies, perhaps something like what i propose is necessary.
I think he hooked me up with the forks for my bike. Good guy. At the end of the day this forum is great. Good people and more Vmax knowledge than anywhere else on the internet. I couldn't have build my bike without this place. For people selling parts eBay is always a good option. Figure about 15% for fees but no hassles.
For the record, This is NOT my main source of income and it's by far more of a passion then a job. That's why I am on here so often. We do have parts we make, parts we have others make/modify for us, parts we get from used bikes, and parts we get from other suppliers for resale. This is by far within the realm of needing a vendor status.
From what I have seen of Kyle's posts he would be exactly the same situation. He buys bikes to fix up or part out, he makes parts on his own (like his brake adapters and motor mounts), and he buys from other suppliers to resell (like the regulators/stators). So, this is far more then just a "levers" issue in my opinion.
If some of you want to do a symbolic supporting gesture and abandon the forum for what I consider a clear cut vendor that isn't supporting the forum (at such a low price) then I am sorry you feel that way but that is your choice.
If I decided not to pay for the vendor costs of the forum and left I am sure there would also be a large portion of the guys on here that would also be upset.
IF this is truly an issue of affordability (due to medical or whatever reasons) then I'll step up and PAY THE ENTIRE $150 vendor fee for him for this year (keep in mind I just lost my "day job" too). If he's doing this to stand up for his morals that he shouldn't have to pay, then I think he's got them oriented a little wrong.
From what I have seen of Kyle's posts he would be exactly the same situation. He buys bikes to fix up or part out, he makes parts on his own (like his brake adapters and motor mounts), and he buys from other suppliers to resell (like the regulators/stators). So, this is far more then just a "levers" issue in my opinion.
If some of you want to do a symbolic supporting gesture and abandon the forum for what I consider a clear cut vendor that isn't supporting the forum (at such a low price) then I am sorry you feel that way but that is your choice.
If I decided not to pay for the vendor costs of the forum and left I am sure there would also be a large portion of the guys on here that would also be upset.
IF this is truly an issue of affordability (due to medical or whatever reasons) then I'll step up and PAY THE ENTIRE $150 vendor fee for him for this year (keep in mind I just lost my "day job" too). If he's doing this to stand up for his morals that he shouldn't have to pay, then I think he's got them oriented a little wrong.
I definitely don't want to participate in an angry exchange over this issue (Kyle's situation). I value all the active members' contributions. Some of us have more knowledge and experience than others in mechanics, but I am pretty-sure that we all have out fields of work experience that may prove useful to another member at some time.
I am only a hobbyist when it comes to mechanics and motorcycles. Since I am probably a bit-older than the average member, I've had more bikes and dealt with more problems along the way. As I often begin my posts in-regards to a mechanical issue, "I am not a professional mechanic."
When I came on here several years-ago, I was returning to the road my veteran VMax, which has been in my stable now for 20 years. I was able to find lots of very reasonably-priced parts, advice, and commiseration about what has befallen each of us as we work-thru the mechanical gremlins we each experience. I spent far-more $$$ buying things than I ever-have selling.
Now, my ride is for the most-part, a solid road performer, needing only cosmetic refurbishment to make me happy. That will come in-time.
I am a forum supporter, and when I get the annual prompt, I will once-again gladly-pay for being here. I just decided to begin to sell-off some of my accumulated parts when this poo-storm hit. Now, I have some pause about what's going down. I want to sell-off stuff I have but I also don't want to end-up unhappy about trying to subsidize my hobby by selling-off unneeded parts, and what may happen. It has always been my intent to pass-along some $ for being allowed a place to sell stuff. I was going to do that anyway, regardless (make an additional voluntary contribution). I see where it's said, (the hobbyist) "doesn't need to-worry about being pressured into a forum vendor status," or something close-to that.
I can see that there are costs to run the forum, and we all need to be financial supporters as we can afford. I'm gonna continue to make my 'forum supporter' banner appear, and will do more-than that if I have the good fortune to sell stuff to members.
It's just a damn shame that when someone who has paid us back in fair deals and freely-shared knowledge (not to-mention the Oldsmar FL Tech Days) and who is now experiencing some significant health issues which are affecting his ability to do what he is good-at, mechanics, is now at a point where he has withdrawn from being on here.
The forum owner has been fairly even-handed, as-far as I can see, historically, and he needs to be fiscally-prudent. If he has made requests of others where because of circumstances in their personal lives, they are hard-pressed to comply, then that 'perfect storm' of bad luck, personal issues, and the need to operate in the black on both sides of the member/owner list have created problems. These problems are driving one valued member away, and the problem of how to offer a service (the forum) without going into the red, is always there. Ya gotta pay the bills to keep the lights-on.
I would gladly help sponsor a place for someone who could benefit from a bit of assistance during a time of need. Would he agree to accept it? Unfortunately, I don't think-so. I have been in contact w/other forum members, and I am going to ask, 'if you want to help create a vendor space for Kyle, PM SpecOps13 (Dave) and tell him what you can afford to do.' I already have, and will either USPS or write a check (I'd rather not use paypal) to a responsible party. Will Kyle return even if we did something for him? At this point in-time it doesn't sound like-it. "Then, what's the point in getting a sponsored vendor space?" I see it as a way to show one of our own that we care about being able to assist in keeping him around, and the forum gets some financial support to keep the lights-on.
This issue is unfortunate, and this is only my view. I hope it's not a Minority Report.
I am only a hobbyist when it comes to mechanics and motorcycles. Since I am probably a bit-older than the average member, I've had more bikes and dealt with more problems along the way. As I often begin my posts in-regards to a mechanical issue, "I am not a professional mechanic."
When I came on here several years-ago, I was returning to the road my veteran VMax, which has been in my stable now for 20 years. I was able to find lots of very reasonably-priced parts, advice, and commiseration about what has befallen each of us as we work-thru the mechanical gremlins we each experience. I spent far-more $$$ buying things than I ever-have selling.
Now, my ride is for the most-part, a solid road performer, needing only cosmetic refurbishment to make me happy. That will come in-time.
I am a forum supporter, and when I get the annual prompt, I will once-again gladly-pay for being here. I just decided to begin to sell-off some of my accumulated parts when this poo-storm hit. Now, I have some pause about what's going down. I want to sell-off stuff I have but I also don't want to end-up unhappy about trying to subsidize my hobby by selling-off unneeded parts, and what may happen. It has always been my intent to pass-along some $ for being allowed a place to sell stuff. I was going to do that anyway, regardless (make an additional voluntary contribution). I see where it's said, (the hobbyist) "doesn't need to-worry about being pressured into a forum vendor status," or something close-to that.
I can see that there are costs to run the forum, and we all need to be financial supporters as we can afford. I'm gonna continue to make my 'forum supporter' banner appear, and will do more-than that if I have the good fortune to sell stuff to members.
It's just a damn shame that when someone who has paid us back in fair deals and freely-shared knowledge (not to-mention the Oldsmar FL Tech Days) and who is now experiencing some significant health issues which are affecting his ability to do what he is good-at, mechanics, is now at a point where he has withdrawn from being on here.
The forum owner has been fairly even-handed, as-far as I can see, historically, and he needs to be fiscally-prudent. If he has made requests of others where because of circumstances in their personal lives, they are hard-pressed to comply, then that 'perfect storm' of bad luck, personal issues, and the need to operate in the black on both sides of the member/owner list have created problems. These problems are driving one valued member away, and the problem of how to offer a service (the forum) without going into the red, is always there. Ya gotta pay the bills to keep the lights-on.
I would gladly help sponsor a place for someone who could benefit from a bit of assistance during a time of need. Would he agree to accept it? Unfortunately, I don't think-so. I have been in contact w/other forum members, and I am going to ask, 'if you want to help create a vendor space for Kyle, PM SpecOps13 (Dave) and tell him what you can afford to do.' I already have, and will either USPS or write a check (I'd rather not use paypal) to a responsible party. Will Kyle return even if we did something for him? At this point in-time it doesn't sound like-it. "Then, what's the point in getting a sponsored vendor space?" I see it as a way to show one of our own that we care about being able to assist in keeping him around, and the forum gets some financial support to keep the lights-on.
This issue is unfortunate, and this is only my view. I hope it's not a Minority Report.
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Really? Do you have to post in such a large font that is FULL OF MISINFORMATION!!?? I should really lock the thread because there is a few here that are fanning the flames with.. well basically BS. Kyle was one of the biggest resellers of used parts here. Did I ever say anything...NO! But as soon as he posted that he was setting up a deal WITH A MANUFACTURER TO RESELL THEIR STUFF HERE, I stepped in. Guess what it makes you if you are reselling manufactured goods??? YES, A VENDOR! I told Kyle that, and he got mad and left. No matter how you try to twist the facts, he wanted to be a Vendor and not pay for it. You only have to look through the classifieds to see how he benefited from the forum.
You can sell your used parts here, or parts that you have made for the VMax. If you sell quite a bit of used parts or services, then a donation to the forum would be appreciated. If you want to resell manufactured part, you need to be a Vendor. If you are a Vendor here, you can sell whatever you want, not just the main focus of your business. If you want to list a lawnmower or a kitchen table in your sub forum or the classifieds, go ahead, there is no rule that stops you from doing that. This is how it has always been here on the forum. It has never been an issue on the forum, but some seem to think they are above the rules.
twistedmax
Well-Known Member
Thanks Gary , that does give me some clarification .
Rusty McNeil
Well-Known Member
As much as I wish this all had not happened, after reading Gary's response I can't do anything but agree with him. He spelled it out pretty clearly.
To Buster's credit, he's let it play-out, and you have to respect that.
