Factory pro jetting recommendations

[Sweetwilliebrownjr]

Well, I talked to factory pro about my wot "wet spot" below 3k. They say air correctors tend to make them lumpy in that range.


marc's words:
"Ok - here's my suggestion.

Buy the 1.0 kit.
Request 185, 190, 195 main jets (that's with a cleared MAJ)
Buy the HDJ emulsion tubes. They atomize fuel better.
Use stck springs for tuning (too soft a spring can cause reversion issues).

Their Stage 7 needles are too skinny for anything.

Chuckle - guess who dynojet sends people to on the west coast for difficult tuning issues.....
I take care of the bike and it's done. (99% of the time)"
That's from Marc at factory pro.



So, remove the air correctors and jet up.
Any one ever went this route before? Downsides? Maybe I'm just too damn picky, but its driving me (and prolly some of you guys too since i wont leave you alone) crazy trying to figure this out. Dynojet told me flat out that a stage 7 kit will NOT work on a vmax. I didn't waste my time trying to figure out why they told me that.

 

[sdt354]

I respectfully disagree. Lot's of guys here run stage 7 with good success. The Morley kit also runs the stage 7 needles. I think you got stage 7 mixed up with stage 1.Stage 1 needles are a problem imho. Of course we're both entitled to our opinions. And all situations, as well as setups, are different. I'd only consider the jets you mentioned in pj2, and they're a little big there too. Why would you go to anyone but Sean, if you bought the kit HE designed?
Steve-o

 

[Sweetwilliebrownjr]

I respectfully disagree. Lot's of guys here run stage 7 with good success. The Morley kit also runs the stage 7 needles. I think you got stage 7 mixed up with stage 1.Stage 1 needles are a problem imho. Of course we're both entitled to our opinions. And all situations, as well as setups, are different. I'd only consider the jets you mentioned in pj2, and they're a little big there too. Why would you go to anyone but Sean, if you bought the kit HE designed?
Steve-o

you took it wrong man, I'm not agreeing with him. Just wanting to expand my knowledge base on this stuff for next time.

That's actually a quoted email from factory pro where the quotations are. It's not my words.

 

[sdt354]

???, I'm really confused now, and not sure what you think I took wrong, please tell me. Sorry you took it that way.I just disagree with your suggestion. No accusations intended.
Steve

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I forgot. Are you running with Vboost operational?

I had great success with stage 7 when I had stock motor. Using just the individual filter pods, air correctors, Mikuni 150's, then 147.5's.
My main goal was to get rid of the airbox.
Was fine with or without Vboost working normally.
I never used the Stg 7 springs. Mine ran to good with the stock springs and slides not drilled to mess with a good thing.
I've run, in the above stage 7 configuration, stock needles, stage 7 needles, and stage 1 needles. Finally ending up with Stage 7 needles.

I guess after all that you could say I didn't have a stage 7 setup, I had an individual air filter with air corrector set up.

The jet sizes he quoted you, is that Mikuni or Mikuni equivalent? Or DJ?

If they're Mikuni sizes I agree they are way too big.

If Dyno Jet then not terribly big but still bigger than I would run on a normal stage 7 setup.

But if the point is to ditch the air correctors then perhaps they are ok? I never thought of trying to make the setup work without the correctors so have no idea what jetting would need to be for that.
Would be interesting to find out.

 

[Sweetwilliebrownjr]

Mine's a muscle jet kit, which obviously works with a lot of the stage 7 stuff, and yes I have v-boost operational. I really was just wondering why air correctors would ever be used if it would work without them, and eliminate the potential for soggy low end power. I'm sure there's a reason. It doesn't specify what type jets on the website, and I neglected to ask the guy. I guess I should have.

 

[Sweetwilliebrownjr]

So, I've done some reading. Obviously a larger air corrector will lean things out, but it also affects the timing on when the main jet takes over. A larger air corrector will make the main transition in later, a smaller one will make it come in earlier, so I suppose that's why a small one is used on our bikes. We need the main to come in earlier. I still haven't found anything on how it will affect other circuits on the carbs, but I'd assume it would lean everything out a bit. I'm really leaning towards tight valves on mine, but it seems I could tune around that with a slightly larger air corrector. I'm going to adjust the valves here shortly just to eliminate that possibility. Man, there's so much going on with these carbs! I'm enjoying learning about all of it, but it's damn frustrating when you can't get your bike running right. I'm about to try some stage 1, or factory pro needles for the time being (thanks Sean), until I get the valves done, then, depending on what's going on after that, I may have to start the tuning over again.

 

[KJShover]

Mine's a muscle jet kit, which obviously works with a lot of the stage 7 stuff, and yes I have v-boost operational. I really was just wondering why air correctors would ever be used if it would work without them

Both the Sean's kit and the Stg 7 will not work without the air correctors. They're needed due to the increased airflow. The bike will run without them, but once you go above the 4k rpm area it will begin to run like ass.

Many people that were working on their own carbs will attest to leaving the airbox off and going for a test spin, only to find out that the bike is running worse. Then try to "fix" the problem when all they had to do is just put the airbox back on.

Don't need them for the stock airbox, but with a Morley lid or individual pods (stg 7, or the Python ones on eBay) your going to need the air correctors.

Also, here is a thread on what people are running for setups. If you haven't looked at it yet, there may be a setup for an area similar to yours that may help get you where you want to be with your tune up.

I'm also running a Morely kit with stg 7 needles, I pull through the rpm range with no issues and still pull 40+mpg out on the highway and about 38+ in the town.
.

 

[Sweetwilliebrownjr]

So, basically, with too much air flow on the main air jet, it changes the main jet transition to such a high rpm, that when the needles lifted, the main jet wouldn't deliver enough fuel (or rather the main air jet is delivering too much air), and it would fall on it's face. The air corrector restricts the air to make the carb "think" it has less air flow, and delivers a richer mixture, and at a lower rpm. I'm not planning on trying it, as I know what I have can be used instead, but it seems like what this guy said is, in theory, right. It would lean everything out, and as long as you use much larger jets, that should richen it back up?

Is my thought process right here? This mess is making my head hurt. Carb theory seems much more complicated than fuel injection.

 

[Sweetwilliebrownjr]

So, Marc at factory pro emailed me, after I ordered some emulsion tubes from him. Figured I'd post it. Dont know if its right or wrong, but its something to chew on. It reads backwards as this was the last email:






Blocking off the MAJ makes big, cold fuel droplets and harder to ignite. That promotes a stumble.
I'm just bustin yer chops - you do what makes sense to you.

FWIW, you'll always make better power with air mixed in with the fuel - always.
But if it doesn't run, there's not much reason to have 3% to 4% more power.

Marc
-----Original Message-----
From: william brown [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 05:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Notification of payment received

Sure thing. It'll be iphone pics though. I will say that there's a LOT of bikes with the kit I have, and most never have the problem I'm having. There's many dyno charts to prove it. I'm gonna try it this way first since I have the jets already, and the guy who makes the jet kit loaned me a set of your needles, and a set of stage 1 dynojet needles, then if no luck I'll be going the route you suggested. As of right now, none of the needles are enough to clear it up. I'll let you know how it turns out in the end.

Sweetwilliebrownjr

On Aug 1, 2013, at 7:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:

In good humor-
Tubes on the way - Can you take pics of the a stock and our tubes, side by side?
as long as you are going to go with a guy's "flows so much air you have to block the MAJ" internet theory.

Cheers,
Marc

 

[Rusty McNeil]

So has factory pro given any guidelines on how to accomplish running individual pods without the air correctors?
Would be interesting to see.....

Seems like I've seen a lot if the older 70's and 80's UJM's converted to individual pods, no idea what they had to do to make it happen.....Did they have to run correctors too??

 

[Sweetwilliebrownjr]

No info on individual filters, as I was only inquiring about the Muscle kit. One day I may try what he says just for shits and giggles, but for now, I've had these carbs apart so many times that I don't even want to think about starting over. He seems pretty adamant about it seeing as how he made the extra effort to poke fun at what I'm doing even after my order was completed. I honestly was a bit insulted by the way he approached that whole situation.

 

[dannymax]

I'm running a stg 3.0 Factory kit....they recommend starting with a Mikuni 170 for pod filters with no correctors.

I didn't go that route tho, stayed with oem jets, #152.5, #90, #170, needle on the 2nd clip and mixture screws out 2 1/4. It pulls really well, any gear, any rpm, no stumbles or hic-cups. Mileage isn't the greatest @ low 30's mpg, plugs look good but still may be a little rich.

There's a slight poof...poof out the pipe at idle but that was there with the stg 7 carbs too....suspecting it might be air getting in the slip joints in the Hindle 4 - 1 and detonating unburned fuel.

 

[tugla]

Might need to drop float height a bit Dan-o.....might bring mileage back.....not sure

 

[dannymax]

Might need to drop float height a bit Dan-o.....might bring mileage back.....not sure

Drop the float with the carbs upside down....yes? Essentially raising the wet level? Or go lower than 17mm?

Didn't they recommend something like a 14mm wet level? Man....seems awful 'wet' doesn't it? :confused2:

 

[tugla]

Ya they must measure from a different point or using a generic carb setting.....

 

[Rusty McNeil]

I think there's a ton of room for error or misinterpretation when measuring dry float as far as comparing "your numbers to my numbers"

Probably due to that awesome sticky we have most of us are on the same page, but I bet if you move much outside our circle it would be difficult to "talk numbers" how are they obtaining theirs?

As it is the caliper method relies on staying off the curved corner of the bowl, getting the jaw perfectly parallel and then trying to judge whether your just barely touching the float or actually lifting it a little.

 

[dannymax]

I think there's a ton of room for error or misinterpretation when measuring dry float as far as comparing "your numbers to my numbers"

Probably due to that awesome sticky we have most of us are on the same page, but I bet if you move much outside our circle it would be difficult to "talk numbers" how are they obtaining theirs?

As it is the caliper method relies on staying off the curved corner of the bowl, getting the jaw perfectly parallel and then trying to judge whether your just barely touching the float or actually lifting it a little.

That's for sure! unk:

And completely moot without a wet level check.

 

[sdt354]

I'm at 16.5mm wet and like it. I don't want to go any higher again, it seemed to rich. Wet is the only way to go for the final check. Too many variables with dry measurements. Like, the lab at BRC indicates. Great set up Dann-o.

 

[dannymax]

Thanks Steve-o....besides the appropriate decals it's even got leveling screws....:rofl_200: