Front Suspension Upgrades

[94 V-Max Rider]

Okay, I've read a bunch of threads on what front suspension upgrades best work on the V-Max. I've seen many threads on Progressive springs and Ricor Intiminators and those who use Race Tech springs along with the Gold Valve emulators. My brother has a 2007 V-Max and is leaning towards Ricor Intiminators. However, he wants to go with Progressive springs. I'm leaning towards Race Tech springs. I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the Ricor Intiminators and Race Tech springs. Race Tech's explanation on linear rate springs over progressive springs, as per their FAQ section, makes sense to me. Thoughts?

 

[Fire-medic]

I have RICORS and Race Tech springs, just what you are describing! If you are looking for performance corroborating anecdotal evidence, I cannot provide that to you, as I haven't installed them yet. :confused2: I re-did the seals awhile ago, and wanted to see how things were w/my late-model front end on my last year model early front end bike. In other words, I have a '93+ front end on my '92 VMax.

Now, I admit to being a bit of an enthusiastic rider but w/o endangering my driving privileges whenever I ride. After I re-did the front end w/new steering head bearings and seals, I was pretty-happy w/how it was working, so I didn't bother installing the RICORs and the Race Tech springs. I did play around w/the fork air pressure, and found that the dive I had was pretty-much nearly eliminated from adjusting the air pressure. I switched the front brakes to FZR1000 4 piston Sumitomos w/the best pads I could find, and the brakes work as well as my FZR1000 which has the exact same brake setup, except the FZR1000 discs are 320 mm dia instead of the VMax's 298 mm. Even though the VMax is about 20% heavier than the FZR1000, the VMax has a much longer wheelbase, which makes the rear brake actually useful as-opposed to doing a 'stoppie' and carrying the rear wheel in the air, as a sportbike can, essentially rendering the rear brake useless.

I think that sized appropriately, the Race Tech would work better compared to the Progressive Suspension 'one-size fits-all' approach. It stands to reason that a 140 lb rider has different needs than a 240 lb rider who them wears 15-20 lb. of gear, and is astride his ride going close to 260 lb. Add a passenger, and you need a better spring than the Progressive Suspension, to my way of thinking.

I am not an engineer, a dedicated racer, or a technician who works on bikes daily for a living, especially someone who sets-up bike suspensions for track day enthusiasts or racers. The preceding was only my opinion.

Okay, I've read a bunch of threads on what front suspension upgrades best work on the V-Max. I've seen many threads on Progressive springs and Ricor Intiminators and those who use Race Tech springs along with the Gold Valve emulators. My brother has a 2007 V-Max and is leaning towards Ricor Intiminators. However, he wants to go with Progressive springs. I'm leaning towards Race Tech springs. I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the Ricor Intiminators and Race Tech springs. Race Tech's explanation on linear rate springs over progressive springs, as per their FAQ section, makes sense to me. Thoughts?

 

[vmaxrooky]

just ordered my progressive lowering kit springs gunna lower my 98 1" ... Accumulators are great if you have the cash... anything is better than stock. I know the racetech springs ride a lil harsh than progressive springs but I don't want a harsh ride want more of a cruiser ride that will handle corners as far as the bias tires will allow my max to go. It's up to you progressive or racetech I think the progressive springs with the racetech acum would be really good? Rachtech makes great stuff and weighs it to you specifically. but you have a race suspension that might wash out on you or cause the frame to tweak in a hard corner and that might cause a wreck.. my 2 cents.....

 

[bazwell]

I got Ricors and Racetechs. They worked for me.
The springs are available in different rates, which is a good idea.

Beware the company called Progressive Springs may not in fact sell progressive rate springs!
The Racetech springs are not progressive rate, but the stockers are. I thought the Progressives looked like dual rate springs.

Basically, unless someone disagrees, I think that either manufacturer is good!

 

[cgswss]

For many years I used WORKS shocks and front springs on both my race and street bikes. I haven't contacted them yet on the Max, but in the past they always spent time with me on details of the bike, my weight, and how I ride. Each time I got the best ride I had ever got out of that bike. I would recommend you call them and discuss your needs. I'm willing to bet they will set you up right.

This is one of the grand plans I have for my bike this year (along with a Morley seat, SS lines, and a list of other things I want to do ) There is NO DOUBT that a set up for your weight and riding style will outpreform buying parts out of a catalogue.

 

[Redbone]

How does a Race Tech front spring that is setup for a geared up rider weighing 250 handle adding a 110 lb passenger? How about adding saddlebags/ tailbags for a trip? It would seem that they would be undersprug unless there is something I'm missing.
With Progressive springs you can adjust your preload (sag) by the length of your spacer, and if you get Jedi's preload adjusters you can tailor your suspension easily.

 

[Fire-medic]

How does a Race Tech front spring that is setup for a geared up rider weighing 250 handle adding a 110 lb passenger? How about adding saddlebags/ tailbags for a trip? It would seem that they would be undersprug unless there is something I'm missing.
With Progressive springs you can adjust your preload (sag) by the length of your spacer, and if you get Jedi's preload adjusters you can tailor your suspension easily.

Air pressure. Also, the load is carried more by the shocks in the rear. And if you have preload adjusters, that too.

 

[MaxMidnight]

How does a Race Tech front spring that is setup for a geared up rider weighing 250 handle adding a 110 lb passenger? How about adding saddlebags/ tailbags for a trip? It would seem that they would be undersprug unless there is something I'm missing.
With Progressive springs you can adjust your preload (sag) by the length of your spacer, and if you get Jedi's preload adjusters you can tailor your suspension easily.

The additional weight of pillion + luggage + kitchen sink will be significantly biased to the rear of the bike so I would have thought that it is the rear spring and damping that would be the issue?
Of course it will also have an effect on the front although how much this is to do with the change in steering geometry rather than spring loading I'm not sure.

Also why wouldn't you adjust the pre-load to a Race Tech spring to alter the sag?
Regardless of if it is a constant rate or progressively wound spring that is fitted the additional weight (whether this be additional pre-load or pillion and luggage) will have an effect.

With a progressively wound jobbie this load will compress the softer end of the spring first which may become coil-bound.
In that event the rider will have to adjust to the different suspension characteristics that will result.
With a single rate spring it will compress equally and the suspension characteristics will be broadly similar.

I have the Race Tech springs and Emulators and occasionally take Mrs Midnight for a ride.
She would love to weighs nearer to 110lbs than her current weight (not elaborating, probably said too much already!). Whilst I notice the difference in feel to the bike this is more to do with slower steering rather than a front suspension issue.

So to try and respond to the initial question, I know folk who have either single rate or progressive wound springs and both camps seem perfectly happy with their arrangement.

On that basis I suspect that whilst you can argue either way the bottom line is that which ever you decide on will be a significant improvement on OE.

 

[mvrk10256]

I just ordered progressive springs. Progressive springs operate differently than linear springs. The Vmax is a heavy bike, and they are dialed in accordingly. I plan on using good fork oil, and passing on the emulators. In addition to that adding some R1 front brakes and call it good. It just needs to be safe, racing a vmax is like racing a pickup. You can do it, but its not a great idea.

 

[Redbone]

The additional weight of pillion + luggage + kitchen sink will be significantly biased to the rear of the bike so I would have thought that it is the rear spring and damping that would be the issue?
Of course it will also have an effect on the front although how much this is to do with the change in steering geometry rather than spring loading I'm not sure.

Also why wouldn't you adjust the pre-load to a Race Tech spring to alter the sag?
Regardless of if it is a constant rate or progressively wound spring that is fitted the additional weight (whether this be additional pre-load or pillion and luggage) will have an effect.

With a progressively wound jobbie this load will compress the softer end of the spring first which may become coil-bound.
In that event the rider will have to adjust to the different suspension characteristics that will result.
With a single rate spring it will compress equally and the suspension characteristics will be broadly similar.

I have the Race Tech springs and Emulators and occasionally take Mrs Midnight for a ride.
She would love to weighs nearer to 110lbs than her current weight (not elaborating, probably said too much already!). Whilst I notice the difference in feel to the bike this is more to do with slower steering rather than a front suspension issue.

So to try and respond to the initial question, I know folk who have either single rate or progressive wound springs and both camps seem perfectly happy with their arrangement.

On that basis I suspect that whilst you can argue either way the bottom line is that which ever you decide on will be a significant improvement on OE.

I see the point, but in reality(as you answered) it is really a matter of preference. If either one is installed without regard to setting the sag then you will not get the best performance out your setup. Inasmuch as the Vmax is not a canyon carver or normally used on road courses for racing it's probably a moot point in most cases.

 

[m-cman]

I have had both types of springs and prefer the Race Tech if interested in corner carving. Any mid-corner adjustments for any reason are more stable with the Race Tech springs. Either is better than stock. My current bike has Race Tech springs and emulators.

The main thing with Race Tech is to match the spring to your weight and riding style. I currently have 1.0 springs and would have been better with .95 probably. It is a little stiff for normal riding. I did lose 37 pounds (187 to 150) though because of a low carb diet due to being pre-diabetic. That magnified the problem.

I talked to Race Tech and they recommended reducing the preload and sent me new design emulator parts to improve the control. All for free BTW. Great customer service!! Haven't gotten around to making the changes but will report on the difference when I do.

 

[DMAN999]

While I would agree that the RaceTech springs would be a good choice if all you do is ride twisties all day.
But from what I've been told and read from various Vmax Riders they are extremely stiff and not very smooth on the highway.
I personally went with Progressive springs because they are smooth as silk on the Highway and are 1000 times better than the stock springs in the Twisties.

 

[MaxMidnight]

If either one is installed without regard to setting the sag then you will not get the best performance out your setup.

Agree wholeheartedly!
When first fitted I was getting wrist shattering (or am I just a wuss?) jarring if I hit a sudden bump.
Set the sag correctly ant that issue went away and the ride was significantly improved.

from what I've been told and read from various Vmax Riders they are extremely stiff and not very smooth on the highway.

There seems to be a consensus, to which I would subscribe, that selecting the weight below that recommended by Race Tech is the way to go.
However, I wonder how may of those who have complained of the ride that they give have bothered to set the sag properly?

 

[johnblaid]

Gee. I'm faced with this decision right now. I HAVE to get the front forks and brakes done on my 1986 (rings of death on the front forks and heavy dive with even light braking) and my mechanic says he has often had good results with progressive but also wanted me to look at racetech's website.

I like the idea of dialing in my weight 265 (they don't have one that heavy but their heaviest one is close). I'm not sure what this GOLD EMULATOR is.

And AIR PRESSURE? Is there air pressure in the front forks?

what am I missing.

95 percent of the riding I do on this bike is commuter on a freeway. 65 to 95. 80 mile round trip per day. I don't want a log wagon ride but I want a bike that will handle my weight.

any advice.

 

[Fire-medic]

I'm gonna say, go w/a used 1993+ fork w/either P.S. or Race-Tech springs. I have done that on my '92, gone to the larger-dia. forktubes. I bought Race-Tech springs and RICOR's (similar in function to the Gold Valve Emulators). I also added a Superbrace. Going w/the later fork allows you to easily upgrade your calipers, and you can put the $$ into the fork instead of the brake brackets while you're stuck w/the wimpy '85-'92 fork. Three mm may not sound like much (40 vs. 43 mm), but it makes a significant difference. You will need the downtube/slider assy's., the triple tree, and the other stuff bolts right-up. Wanna drop $1K on an USD fork? Spend it on going radials instead, all you need is a 17" or 18" rear wheel, use the stock front wheel, and buy sensibly-sized radial tires, say, 170 and 110 (R-F) and your ride will be so-different, you will wonder why it took you so-long. One hundred mm bolt-spacing two-opposed piston calipers or three opposed piston calipers are readily available, and add some braided brake lines, and you're all-set.

So, what would you spend?

• 43 mm stock Yamaha 1993+ triple trees, downtube/sliders, used $250
• new springs, your choice Prog. Suspension or Race-Tech $100
• used R1 two-opposed piston calipers blue or gold dot $75
• used 298 mm rotors 1993+ $150
• Russell or similar stainless steel brake lines $80
• HH EBC pads $80
• Kosman rear wheel 17" or 18" X 5.5" $600
• front 110 X 18 radial tire, your choice $100
• rear radial tire, 17" or 18", your choice $160
• RICOR or Gold Valves $120
• fork brace $100

total $1815

Ah, throw-in some All-Balls steering head bearings, $35, so call it $1850. If you add a set of good quality rear shocks, which you can do for $<300, you spend a bit more-than two grand, and your bike will behave in a way that you never thought possible. Sure, you can spend $600+ for a "da bomb" pair of rear shocks, and a notched swingarm, braced for the high-zoot factor, another $3-400, or more, those two items will allow you to run a tire that will make your handling be not as-precise as a narrower tire, but will add points at the local hang-out. Just take a wood rasp to the 'chicken strips' on that fattie before you go there. I'm pointing-out what I have tried, bought and used, and that is my opinion of the biggest bang for the buck for your VMax. I'm not claiming it now handles like a 2013 R6 Yamaha sportbike, but I wish I had done it sooner in my twenty years of ownership of my 1992.

Your choice, your $$. Buy wisely, search for good deals on used parts, and you can do it cheaper. Buy new stuff, and spend a lot more.

 

[davesax36]

I just went down one notch with the racetechs (.95 on the chart for my weight, ordered .90). They are super smooth on the highway, don't dive much under braking, and feel great going around corners. I can see why they'd feel too stiff if you order them for your weight. It's just due to the weight distribution of the bike.

 

[Biker Dash]

With my style of riding, I think I would be best served with the Progressive springs. Also, a the Gold Emulator would be nice too. Oh, and I will be going with manual preload adjusters. I don't wanna deal with air, thank you.

I don't need razor sharp handling, but better would be nice, and I want it to feel acceptably smooth over various bumps. Guess I am going for something in the middle somewhere lol.

 

[Redbone]

I have stock 92 front end w/ intiminators, Progressive springs, fork brace, adjustable spring preload adjusters and radials... they are a great combination. I just spent 6 days in Pennsylvania aggressively riding the twistys which tested the setup pretty well and I'm pleased with the performance.
I had thought about going with a 93 - 07 front end but there is no need now. I may fall prey to the MM someday and put a R1 frontend on but that will be for the bling appeal mostly.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk w/ vboost!

 

[sdt354]

I changed springs originally to control front end dive during braking. The progressives give me that feature, I'm sure Race Techs do too. The normal riding, spring rate is just a bit stiffer than stock on the Progressive's. Add radials, and decent rear shocks, and it's a different bike.

 

[Traumahawk]

With me I have progressives and preload adjusters, and progressive 418s for the rear. Front fork brace, and Sean's frame braces. Shinkos front and rear. Completely different bike. It will do everything in the corners that i want to do.